Again, you don’t get how it works in practice. You dont even realize that you’ve just given a definitive answer to a long standing debate in American jurisprudence like you’ve settled it.
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Your first example is a valid point. Your second one it’s not, because it’s merely a head covering not the full face mask.
You’re point was that we interact, socially, in part by looking at faces, and the inability to see a face on someone else is inherently anti-social, in your view. My point was that not everybody interacts in the same way and faces aren’t always perceived and understood in the same way.
The people who cover their face and the people who can’t see faces are still part of the social context, even if they don’t operate in the world the same way you do.
So, do you think that people who can’t see faces are anti-social?
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I know somebody’s who’s face blind. She has a stalker she can’t recognize due to her face blindess. She has to ask others to look out for her stalker (she’s shown us social media profiles of him). He could be right in front of her and she wouldn’t know him from Adam. So while I wouldn’t call her “antisocial,” I would say that her face blindness exposes her to dangers in ways the rest of us do not experience in much the same way allowing people to wear full face masks on subways as normative behavior can expose us to danger.
You’re mixing up your arguments. You’re trying to say “the law! the law!” at the same time as making up your own de facto standard for what anti-social means. Since you’re a “words have specific meanings and I know what those meanings are!” kind of person, you should know that anti-social has a specific meaning and what you’re actually referring to is asocial. While antisocial has a secondary meaning that really means asocial, antisocial typically means hostile towards society. Being passively non-participatory while covering your face and body is just somewhat (and only visually) asocial.
Do you know any Muslim women who wear the full garb? I’ve worked with a few. They’re not antisocial. The ones I’ve interacted with have been chatty and friendly.
Do you consider people wearing costumes on Halloween to be antisocial? What about mascots or people who dress up as pop culture characters or people who have bushy beards and wear sunglasses and hats?
Also, can you provide a legal citation that wearing a face covering for religious purposes is illegal?
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Thank you for finally answering my question.
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Okay, so in the following scenario, is it suspicious?
It’s Monday, February 13 in New York City. The temperature outside is zero degrees Fahrenheit (-17 Celsius). Someone carrying a backpack is hurrying down the steps into the subway, wearing a hat and scarf to be fully bundled up against the cold.
They spot that their train has arrived and speed up in an attempt to catch it.
This person has a hidden face, is carrying a bag, and is running in the subway. Is that person suspicious?
I would say no, that person is not suspicious, because they have both a plausible reason to be bundled up, and a plausible reason to be hurrying.
I see no difference when it comes to this woman: she has a plausible reason to be covered (her religious beliefs), and a plausible reason to be hurrying (trying to catch a train).
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Right, context matters.
So, the police acted violently based upon what threat again? What can she hide under her facial coverings that somebody else couldn’t hide under or inside pretty much anything else? Statistically, is the rate of terrorists committing ‘terrorist acts’ while wearing hijabs here in the U.S. great enough that it’s worth focusing on?
Or would that be a mind-bogglingly stupid thing for a terrorist to do, and in fact they generally try to be as non-Muslim in outward appearance before taking any such risks, and are they also generally not Muslim at all?
Did they, in fact, ruin somebody’s day while focusing on an obvious non-target and eliminate their ability to detect (largely nonexistent as far as causes of death are concerned) threats? Was their violence indeed completely unnecessary? Were they easily frightened assholes that have no business in a position of power over others?
They don’t just deserve to get sued, they deserve to lose their jobs to people who can act like adults when given responsibility. We have plenty of teachers, nurses, and parents who are far more capable of doing the job these officers completely and epically failed at.
What kind of country do you want to live in, exactly? Can we at least hold up ‘behaving like adults’ and ‘using a few fucking neurons before endangering somebody’ as an expectation for police behavior? Why is there only rights and power given with far less responsibility again?
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Do you recognize that trying to make all face blind by making full face coverings on public transit normative behavior is just as dangerous to the rest of us as it is to my friend?
Sharia law?
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If that’s the case, there should be an increased amount of violence by masked attackers in the winter months in cold-weather areas. After all, there will be more people hiding their faces during those months.
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This hits a little close to home (hah…that too!) because one of my daughters has had issues with various authority figures around Arabic/Muslim issues (for example, fasting during Ramadan or reading books in Arabic in public). Nothing this student did is unusual with regard to riding public transportation here. The only explanation was that the reaction was due to her Muslim headgear.
When you think about it, headgear really does seem to bother a lot of people. Sikh turbans, Jewish yarmulkes, Hijab/Niqab…and yet apparently cowboy or baseball hats are not ‘scary’ and don’t have to be removed in the exact same settings. Hmmm…
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It’s not the head covering, it’s the full face mask combined typically with a full body drape that obscures the shape of the body and body language.
Please don’t put words in my mouth and attribute ideas to me that I don’t state. I never said everyone should cover up their faces, merely that Muslim women are not a threat to you, me, or pretty much anyone.
Your friend is not threatened by everyone whose face she can’t recognize but by one asshole (and I’m sure the cops have done nothing to fix the problem considering how useless the cops are when it comes to domestic abuse). I feel for your friend, because no one should have to live with that sort of abuse, face blind or not. But a stalker is not a woman in a niqab.
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Because no one, not even people wearing costumes, are ever late and need to sprint for a train or off of a train or are excited about the comicon they’re going to or might be playing pokemon go in costume or are a part of some viral video stunt or flash mob or are late for work as a costumed sign holder and they don’t want to get fired, right?
Have you looked at mass shooting and public bombing incidents? Usually the perpetrators aren’t dressed in costumes. They might wear glasses and hats, but on the whole, they tend to try to look normal rather than stand out as an aberration among the crowd. What makes you suspicious doesn’t seem justified based on the patterns of the people who commit heinous acts.
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Do you recognize that not everyone in the world has a stalker?
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No, merely the functional equivalent if a masked person. If we normalize full face coverings on public transit we all become functionally face blind.
And then what would happen to the children?!
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I’m sorry you’re late to the party. It’s already normalized among non-bigoted people.
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sooeee! somebody’s using words as though they are flexibly defined by usage instead of immutably set down in stone as provided by G-d!
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