Yeah. Who woulda thunk that others would agree with you that she should’ve kept her politicizing, overly zealous mouth shut. Nice company you got there.
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Perhaps I was wrong to suggest that these kinds of theories could be explored within in game worlds. Those gamergaters are a feisty lot.
Yeah… this is what the alt-right does, what they’ve been doing for a while and feel more empowered to do now. This is what happens when you constantly mock and belittle specific people.
It’s not just about gamergate, those are just the shock troops. There has long been a conservative movement aimed at destroying academia, because they view it as “ideological and political” biased against white men and “white” civilization. It’s not about being “fair and balanced” or whatever. It’s about making sure that women, people of color, and people who are sympathetic to them stay “in their place.”
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What? No, who said you’re wrong to suggest that? You started this thread by lambasting an article that ALSO suggests that:
The dearth of people of color in modern media depicting the ancient world is a pivotal issue here. Movies and video games, in particular, perpetuate the notion that the classical world was white. This is an issue when 70% of my students tell me that games such as Ryse: Son of Rome (which uses white statues to decorate the city of Rome and white Roman soldiers as lead characters), as well as films like Gladiator (which has a man from New Zealand playing the Spaniard Maximus) and the 300 (which has xenophobic depictions of Persians) led them to take my courses.
Now you’re apparently expressing shock that Dr. Bond (whom you accuse of being a trolley) is receiving hate mail and threats from white supremacist trollies. What you’re not acknowledging is that your initial post and its title express agreement with those who are sending her threats.
Bond says in your recent link that the white supremacist trollies "want to make me an example of the hyper-liberalization of the academy.” It seems that was your initial charge against Dr. Bond, whom you characterized as a “politicizing” “revolutionary zealot,” as well.
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The ultra right wing has never fully subscribed to the notion that politics is matter of debate. What kind of person would believe that death threats fall inside the domain of politics?
by contrast, there’s another tradition of politics that embraces the questioning of various policies, privileges, and traditions,
So, when something of minor import is politicized, is it examined in the harsh light of reason, or does it become a proxy for other things?
Why do you raise the notion of open warfare?
Wow, that’s not an “edit,” that’s a complete replacement of your previous comment.
Anyway, I gather from your questions (rather than, surprise surprise, a straightforward statement of just what it is you object to about Dr. Bond’s article) that you think that in her article, Dr. Bond “politicizes” something – the color of statuary and such – that you consider of “minor import,” thereby using the color of statuary as “a proxy for other things.” (I would ask if I’m summarizing your implied point correctly, but I’ve gathered by now that you’re not about to answer questions from me.)
If that’s your implication, I’ll reply that I do not consider the issue of the color of statuary and such “of minor import.” It is of significant import, for several reasons, just one of which – the one that Dr. Bond mostly focuses on – is that a longstanding white supremacist bias in the west is reflected in the favoring of, and ideological usages of, apparently white statues.
If you think that helping to counter that ongoing bias by attempting to address and to the extent that we can, replicate, the former colors that much statuary and such once had is a matter of “minor import,” and that doing so is a form of “politicizing” something (rather than just a form of like, you know, dealing with reality), I think that says more about your own “politics” than it does about Dr. Bond’s.
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Hell, I remember my parents telling me that when I was a kid – my educated parents who actually believed in higher education for the knowledge, but wanted to innoculate their kids against ultra-liberal ideals found in those settings (spoiler: for at least one, a lot of that failed, but it was the Internet, not college in a conservative town that got me good. Though I did see students at that college arguing with a library sciences teacher that people shouldn’t be ‘forced to read’ the assigned material, because the student didn’t agree with the ideas in it). Yes, someone with a B.A. in English still tells me how out of touch academics are.
Other spoiler: I have not been a kid for quite some time. When you say “long been” I can testify to that.
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I think it is great that good work using cutting edge techniques is showing the original appearance of ancient art. We should be using whatever objective facts are discovered to constantly revise our understanding of history.
The recent theories of the relationship between marble statuary and White supremacy are just as silly as as the old theories.
Besides which, even unpainted statuary is not always white.
That being said, My vote would be to display, whenever possible, reproductions with updated color alongside original sculpture.
Such statements are entirely unconvincing without support, much of which Dr. Bond gives in her article as direct evidence for a claim that you dismiss (again, entirely without support) as “silly.”
What evidence can you provide to counter Dr. Bond’s demonstration, as well as that of others whom she cites, of the relationship – an actually obvious relationship – between white-appearing statuary and racial white supremacy?
Edit:
Besides which, even unpainted statuary is not always white.
Who said it is always white?
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why exactly is Maximus a Spaniard? Before we ask the question-- what does a 2nd century spaniard look like, we must consider the fictional, or if one insists, “composite” nature of Crowe’s character…
No, we musn’t. Because…
- We’ve got a fairly good idea what 2nd century Iberians looked like. Russell Crowe ain’t it.
and
- The trivial details of that piece of badly-written cheesy shit are entirely irrelevant to the broader point of cinematic whitewashing etc., and focussing on them appears to be a transparent attempt at deflection and derailing.
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While also trying to unpaint oneself out of a corner.
Thanks for the reminder of “white fragility.” At least two of those four questions strike me as especially relevant to behavior already displayed in this thread.
- Am I trying to change the subject?
- Am I getting defensive or angry?
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What about Russel Crowe seems off to you? He has some Maori heritage, but his primary heritage is Welsh, which is not all that different from CeltIberian.
A late period Roman could look like almost anyone.
Perhaps there’s something already posted upthread relevant to this question…
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It’s not like there are very many non cheesy Roman apropriations.
Gladiator
Ryze, Son of Rome
and, oh yeah, Hail Casar.
I, Clavdivs?
Cheesy is in the eye of the beholder, though. And it did feature BRIAN BLESSED, so…
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Life of Brian.
But I was responding to [quote=“Wanderfound, post:75, topic:102767”]
- We’ve got a fairly good idea what 2nd century Iberians looked like. Russell Crowe ain’t it.
[/quote]
In the sense that I am genuinely interested in what Wanderfound thinks people from that place in that era looked like, and the reasoning behind those beliefs.
Sounds like a good topic for you to start another thread about.
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