ICE held US citizen for 3.5 years, then dumped him in rural Alabama with no money and no explanation

Hell, I would say we deserve ⊥rump, especially those who voted for him.

Sometimes the only way to learn a lesson is to experience the consequences of ignorance, stupidity, and apathy.

:cry:

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I was always under the impression that civil cases only affect one’s material possessions and cannot result in imprisonment. If you can be imprisoned in a civil case, how does Gideon and habeas corpus not apply?

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The short answer appears to be simply that your impression was wrong. You can be ‘detained’ as a result of civil proceedings.

There’s what appears to be a fairly good summary of the relevant law here:

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R43613.pdf

As to why it is that way - apparently that is the way successive governments have wanted it.

Aliens subject to removal proceedings have the right to an attorney so long as they can organise it themselves and either pay for it or find someone to act for free.

The US Government does not want to pay for it.

Given that Congress has fairly good evidence that US citizens are not keen to pay for healthcare or welfare benefits for citizens, why should they think that there is any more appetite to pay for legal advice for non-citizens?

The US is not alone in this.

The UK also does not provide free legal assistance for immigration issues other than asylum claims (and a few other edge cases) and if things continue on the same path, no one will get free legal assistance for anything.

The US Congress does not represent the US people. It represents the donor class.

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Sure. Just like every legislature. :frowning:

And asking voters what they want is one thing. What they actually vote for in elections is another.

Voters may say all those things you linked to. Yet Trump did get elected on platforms that were pretty explicitly contrary to all those positions.

You can argue that the US electoral system is flawed but it is the system that’s in place and it has elected Democratic candidates in the past.

If you’re a Congress-person, are you going to think there are more votes to be gained or lost by advocating providing free legal advice to illegal immigrants?

Not so much.

Money has an influence everywhere, but the US situation is a long way from the norm. Campaign finance controls etc do actually work.

There are plenty of problems in Oz politics, but they mostly aren’t due to the Parliament failing to represent the people. They’re due to the people being dicks.

On the votes of about a quarter of the country.

A dangerously large chunk of Americans are fascist loonies, but most of 'em aren’t. Unfortunately, most of those people are completely unrepresented in Congress.

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Sounds like a dangerous way to set up a constitution, IMO. I believe that everything that isn’t explicitly forbidden should be allowed to natural persons, but that everything that isn’t explicitly allowed should be forbidden to a government. An example from the US Constitution comes to mind: patent laws can only exist in the USA because the Constitution says they can - I’ve clashed several times online with folks who affirmed that it said they must, which it doesn’t.

Tell that to Venezuela. Chavez took power in the early 2000’s and banked on the ignorance of the population that was in need. Cut to today where the country is on the brink of collapse and there’s still a high number of idiots that still believe in the Chavista government.

Things going to shit does not force people to reasses their flawed biases, if anything it reinforces them. Everyone else MUST be wrong, not me!

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