It’s official: the show sacrifice plots and character development for Sex and Violence. Way to go HBO, for perpetuating the 90’s curse of edgyness.
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Wrong…IIRC they know precisely what Ramsay is. Sansa wants revenge in spite of the known dangers.
“Sansa and Baelish eventually arrive at the ruins of Moat Cailin, where Sansa learns that they are actually returning to Winterfell and Baelish’s plan is to have her marry Ramsay Bolton, the son of Roose Bolton,
the current Warden of the North. Sansa is initially reluctant to marry
into yet another family that betrayed hers, but Baelish pacifies her by
claiming it will be an opportunity for her to avenge her family.”
Bambi?
So in an episode named “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” we see:
The Queen of Thorns bowed
Arya bending
Theon the broken
and so on
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Ah, so it’s all her fault then. Nothing to do with the male dominated society right? Bawhahahaha! I love you bipeds!
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I wouldn’t go that far…but I’m not a dragon. Deserve doesn’t enter into it.
Now that you’re retreating from :
to
She clearly knows what she is walking into but chooses to endure that in exchange for revenge.
You’re not much of a human either if you think it’s her fault and she had much of a choice.
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Your words.
Formed from your opinions.
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Yeah, the zoom in on Theon’s face makes it likely that it’s meant to be about him snapping out of it and setting him on a road to redemption, similar to the book plot. But with Brienne close by and all those Northeners assuring Sansa of their loyalty lately, I would’ve hoped for a different resolution to it. And the “good guys suffering horribly” plot device is also something that’s most effective by being used sparingly, by now a classic trope like a last-minute raid on Winterfell would’ve actually been the bigger surprise for me.
@Falcor @slickhead Alright you two, are we going to have to call in a moderator…?
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My point was that it had two women who had a conversation about something other than a man in a male-dominated society, which was proclaimed as an impossibility. Nothing here contradicts that.
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I think you’re misreading it even still if you feel it needs to “fail” because someone misunderstands its purpose.
A model is representative and should be used to create a better class of media. It is not something that needs to “fail itself” as you are attempting to suggest. The author stating that it doesn’t do what you suggest it would is not also an evidence of it ultimately “failing” itself.
The website is incorrect (and I have seen the movie). There are at least two other female characters (The Splendid Angharad and Miss Giddy) addressed by name and the women manage to discuss things, other than men, more than once.
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I never stated my opinion. You read your own opinions into my words.
Right. I wasn’t trying to contradict your statement. I was just providing an FYI that Mad Max had been reported not to meet the Bechdel Test, which another commenter has disagreed with that report.
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Come. The statement that @Falcor objected to, which you appeared to agree with (by replying to it only to joke that a mod would call it victim-blaming, and then supporting its premises), was
Of course this is wrong.
- She just followed Baelish. She only realized she was going to Winterfell at the very end of the journey
- Baelish convinced her, under her strong protests, to marry the guy
- No one suggested to her that Ramsay was a rapist or a sadist. She knew only that his father had killed her brother and mother
- She might regardless have every reason to think that she had an expectation not to be raped by her husband
- The line “specifically to be impregnated” implies that sex, and possible rape, were her motivation. There is no clearer way to blame the victim
- The rape scene was “not about Sansa.” Her getting raped (which she apparently rode 1000 miles specifically to do) wasn’t even the crux of the scene? When this guy describes the scene, apparently it’s not “the scene when Sansa was raped” but “the scene when Reek was very sad.”
If you disagree with those remarks, just say so and be done with it, and stop this silly argument about which of those beliefs you have or haven’t explicitly said you hold.
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- She and I were both under the impression that she chose to follow Baelish despite knowing how devious he is. Correct. She could have left him to go with Brienne. She chose not to. She has had to choose between some shit choices. It seems to be pretty common in GOT. Everyone gets dealt shit hands. No one deserves rape.
- She agreed to go with along Baelish’s plan in order to avenge her family. No one deserves rape.
- I need to go back and watch the episode where they discuss Ramsay. I got the impression that his proclivities are well known. Regardless she gets several warnings prior to the “I do.” Also, even though sometimes it is a distinct possibility, no one deserves rape.
- Of course she might. She also might know exactly what kind of man he is well before this scene. If you recall her wedding night with Tyrion she pretty much expected to be ravaged and was surprised when he didn’t. Always remember, no one deserves rape.
- Absolutely, she knew intercourse was on the menu. I think in those days, in this world, marriage is totally more about consummation and carrying on the bloodline than it is about love and all that. I’m sure Sansa is at least slightly more aware of this than you seem to be (Patriarchy and all that). I’m not sure how precisely she had planned to go about intercourse with Ramsay and neither are you. Oh Yeah, and no one deserves rape.
- Finally, Here we go! I think bathosfear is saying that the rape is less important to the story and character development than Reek’s role in this scene is (not excluding what was changed about Reek’s role in this scene from the books to make it less horrifying). Just because the rape is the most horrific thing in the scene doesn’t necessarily make it the most important in regards to the progress of the storyline. I agree that’s an important distinction. Once again, no one deserves rape. Not even fictional characters in fictional worlds that exist only in our imaginations.
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ah, I didn’t catch the show. also the previous dialog implied she should deny her identity.
