Israel - Palestine conflict. 2023-24 misery and horror continues

I do agree with that. Arms transfers to Israel must stop. And in fact that’s really the bare minimum. We need an end to the incursion, and most importantly, a palestinian state, and compensation for the damage done to the Palestinians who are not Hamas (most of them). Anything less is a full moral failing on our part. :sob:

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Season 4 Drinking GIF by Power

Confused Lauren Conrad GIF by The Hills

Not so sure about that one.

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It’s a very important point. Just it’s not because Russia isn’t trying to commit genocide, but rather that Israel has been doing it much more directly. Ideally America would be strongly condemning both.

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Agreed, but if Russia COULD have done that, they would. They’ve been telling the world that since the first invasion began in 2014…

See Schitts Creek GIF by CBC

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Well, I think Russia was after more of a “kidnap the children and erase their national identity” style genocide as opposed to a “kill everyone so we can repopulate the land” style genocide. But, you know, it still comes with a hell of a lot of civilian murdering and war crimes. It’s still genocide. So many people act as if you can be against one or the other but they’re both atrocities.

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I think that is also a byproduct of what was possible. Again, I think if Ukraine were the size of Gaza, didn’t have a military and 30 some odd years of development, this would have gone very differently than it has. it would be very much like what we’re seeing in Gaza. Now, what’s happening is what’s happening, and on that level, it’s really not comparable, so @robertmckenna is right, but i’d like for us to look at the larger problem with this kind of nationalist worldview, because it’s taken hold all over the place right now, and is a problem we have to collectively deal with. Nationalism that depends on the elimination of some other group to prove itself is a universal problem plaguing the world, and has been since the 19th century. And nationalism can turn into that (though it doesn’t always, obviously). But once someone has gone down the road of “those people aren’t real as a nation, and can be eliminated” then you’re easily going to get to the “lets kill them all by whatever means, because our existence is under threat, and so now genocide is morally defensible.”

Much like climate change, the neo-liberal capitalist economy, I really do think it’s a collective problem unleashed by a few centuries of European imperialism that we’ve got to comprehend as a interconnected problem, and to push back against where ever it comes up.

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The Guardian:

Israel withdraws troops from southern Gaza for ‘tactical reasons’

(No onebox because of a bug on the page.)

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It is a tolerance granted not just recently because of the Hamas attack, but because, traditionally, Israel is seen as sharing western political and cultural values. It is perceived as having the sort of “manners”, emphasis on social liberties and respect for global power hierarchies that make it deserving of inexhaustible support; its treatment of Palestinians an occasionally awkward wrinkle to be finessed away.

… I think that’s the most British thing I’ve ever seen printed in The Guardian :face_with_monocle:

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Interesting that you should say that, because Nesrine Malik is from Sudan.

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Good summary of many informed observers who see the Israeli government trying to spark a war in the region, and to drag the U.S. into it:

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But what do I know, here is a true fucking hero of the world, just trying his best to fucking FEED people saying the same shit I am…

:woman_shrugging:

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The blog is closed.

Oh, it is? Guess I won’t go there then, especially since you didn’t add anything about why you think I should. :person_shrugging:

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Onebox was not making it clear.

Here’s the bullets in the link.

  • The International Court of Justice (ICJ) begins two days of hearings to consider Nicaragua’s request that emergency measures be imposed on Germany over its support for Israel’s war on Gaza.
  • The first day’s hearing opens at 10am local time (08:00 GMT) in The Hague, Netherlands.
  • Nicaragua argues that, by providing political, financial and military support to Israel and by defunding the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA), Germany is “facilitating the commission of genocide”.
  • In January, after a case brought by South Africa, the court ordered Israel to prevent acts of genocide in its war on Gaza.
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I’m fairly sure that if the flow of US arms and money to Israel ended this instant, it would have little or no impact on their strikes on Gaza.

Israel has an extensive high-tech armaments industry of their own, and the IDF is well equipped. They can keep up on bombing and shooting civilians and turning Gaza into rubble for a long time without any outside help.

That doesn’t mean cutting the US military aid off isn’t a good idea, or that it wouldn’t have a significant long-term impact. But it probably wouldn’t do much short-term good. If there was some quick, simple, effective way to make Israel stop killing Palestinian civilians in Gaza, I think the US would have used it already.

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