But if you can, do so! What use is horrible power over another human being if you hold back? Why even join the force if you can’t flex on any rando who disobeys?
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So, what should happen when some guy decides to disrupt this kind of event? He had his say, got an answer he didn’t like, and was determined to have an extended conversation Ross wasn’t interested in. How do you maintain control in this setting? Is the only “civilized” answer that you can’t? So every event like a book reading that attracts a crank is subject to being shut down?
Well, you could remove the person without charging them with imaginary crimes for a start.
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Ross acts like an adult and walks away. Which he may have done: that isn’t covered. Or ignores the question. Maybe staff turn off the microphone? There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of appropriate responses that de-escalate the situation short of grabbing & arresting the guy for asking questions.
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As was noted in many of the linked articles and several comments here, Mr. Rothe-Kushel was willing to leave quietly if so asked. If there was somebody truly disruptive who wasn’t wiling to leave the event/library the employees of the library would ask their security to remove such a person. That was not the situation here.
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Yeah, this whole thing stinks. I’m guessing whoever that other group was
has had run-ins with Rothe-Kushel before and really don’t like him. But he
said if he was asked to leave he would have, and it really appears as if
they didn’t give him a chance, as soon as he started asking a second
question they grabbed him. I just don’t even understand how the police can
press charges over this when the library is against it. Oh wait, I guess
it’s the “resisting arrest” and “interfering with an arrest” charges. It
seems to me that when the initial arrest was unlawful the resisting and
interfering charges should automatically be thrown out. I guess the police
just don’t want to admit how far out of line they are in this case.
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Step 1: Let the person know that, while you share that person’s concerns and would like to discuss this issue further, this is not the appropriate venue, and his staff will set up an appointment to discuss his issue at a later date.
Step 2: If the person persists in heckling, shut off the heckler’s mic. Apologize to the heckler and reiterate that this isn’t the appropriate venue, and then apologize to the audience for the interruption, and continue speaking.
Step 3: If the person persists in heckling, pull aside a member of your staff and a representative of the library and ask them to ask the heckler to take the discussion elsewhere.
Step 4: If the person persists in heckling, ask the library staff and/or security to escort the patron, bouncer-style, to another part of the library and bar him entry to return to the event.
Step 5: If the person persists in heckling, ask the library staff and/or security to escort them from the library, at which point, they can yell all they want. At this point, the person is now trespassing, and can be arrested if they fail to leave.
Step 6: If the person attempts to use force to re-enter the event, then arrest the person.
Force should be the last resort for dealing with a heckler, not the first.
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The problem is, the person who had the authority to kick him out hadn’t decided that things had gotten to that point. If I’m an invited guest, I can’t kick people out of your house, even if they are being disruptive.
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Well that’s what he says now. How willing he was to leave at the time, before he had the bracelets put on him and he had to bail himself out is very much an open question.
The main point is that nobody with the actual authority to do so had asked him to leave this public event.
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I’m a librarian and I approve this message.
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That part really bothers me. How can you arrest someone for resisting arrest? There is a logical paradox at work here. There must first be an arrest being made before you can resist it or have we stumbled across evidence of time travel where the result takes place before the action?
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As a Kansas City resident I really like the Kansas City Public Library and am glad they’re on the right side of this, going so far as one of the people in charge was arrested for trying to stop it and getting both people out of jail, not just their own.
One of the reasons for the enhanced security was because Kansas City recently had a shooting at a jewish center that killed several people. So indirectly a result of terrorism, ugh.
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How do you resist someone opening a door? Surely if the door is opened then it can’t have been resisted against!
you arrest someone resisting arrest by using force until they submit. this is pretty much a standard charge in every police brutality case.
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“We’re there to keep the peace.”
“And we will kick the shit out of you until we get it.”
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I’m looking at the one report and thinking “would my director bail me out of jail?”
Boss-cred right there.
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Do not mess with the librarians.
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It’s the same issue with cops shooting dogs. The reality of a being’s nature, whether human or animal, is that they will act certain ways in certain situations, such as resisting when someone puts their hands on them. Dogs will often bark at strangers that enter their territory. Cops will arrest you (probably after assaulting you) if you resist them, because they are cops, rather than because they identified themselves to you as cops. It’s the same with dogs except dogs aren’t trained to recognize cops from other people, but cops will often shoot a dog (even chained up on its owners property) because the dog barked and “seemed dangerous.”
All of these problems seem to revolve around cops being special. If you assault someone, it’s assault. If you assault a police officer, it’s assault (possibly elevated based on their police status from a regular assault), it’s disorderly behavior, it’s resisting arrest, it’s anything else they can throw at you. If you have a gun in your hand, another civilian isn’t justified in killing you without more provocation, but a cop can. Wrestling with a cop who has a gun suddenly makes an unarmed man a “deadly threat” because “he was reaching for my gun.”
Cops do a hard job, but they also reap the benefits of being a special class of protected people who get the most deference for their safety and for their errors and even for their criminal activities. This should change.
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The investigation into dgaf into brainfartiness of …randoclerk must continue. Also Jeremy to be paid for junket through the Diaspora 51 continuing this action, not jailed. [Whacks copy of Persepolis Rising] keep with the program, KCPD!
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Loud talking, laughter, conversation,…
A literal reading of the policy seems to suggest that the security officer was operating within the policy, though not necessarily wisely or in a way that would defuse the situation.
