Joss Whedon on claims that feminists chased him off Twitter: "Horseshit"

Hahaha, well, you know, I’m American, so of course I presume we’re somehow special unique snowflakes. :slight_smile:

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Yep, you’re correct. It’s a set of interrelated problems.

Yep, but again, who gets to be in that position is hotly contested, because of the complexity of the problems. I also think who does that can shape the discussion, and that’s not always a good thing. It’s a sneaking authoritarianism…

Look, we’re not going to get a 1st airbourne wombat division, if we don’t push a few wombats off a clif, you know!

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“Like, I don’t know any Buffy trolls.”

He’s got to be kidding.

@Mindysan33 i apologize, I was speaking at somewhat of a higher level point. I took your initial response as framing the argument that if one does not fall squarely in line with a movement, they MUST then wholly support the opposition. My use of the word repugnant falls in a similar context. I think its important to remember that the goal cannot be to change minds, only to remove the tools a mind has to cause harm. This holds true not just for feminism, but for any form of discrimination or abuse. One must extend the same liberties and open mindedness to their opposition that they would demand for themselves. If not, the entire concept of personal freedom becomes a lie, and the activists become the oppressors. Rather than waste time berating someone who uses homophobic slang or drops an “N-word”, 100% of the focus should be spent on ensuring that the architecture of our society has no avenue for those thoughts or words to become actions or institutions. Liberal or Conservative, a fanatic is a fanatic, and a bigot is a bigot. To be truly great, we cannot simply be better than Them, we must be better than ourselves.

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It is a highly powerful and risky position. But static friction is usually larger than kinetic friction. It is easier to steer a thing in motion than something that’s not moving at all. That is why I think we should start with studying the wombat populations and see if any are more willing to and suitable for flying. It would be a massive waste to create a large number of adorable southern-hairy-nosed wombat shaped holes somewhere in the outback just to realize that the northern kind, with their jet-turbine-like noses, are more adapted to aerial acrobatics and actually like to feel the wind in their hairy noses.
The Wright brothers built on the ideas of others and created the first plane, but they didn’t control all of aeronautics to come.

Like I said earlier about not being able to even agree on the goal, I’d prefer if those thoughts or words could lead to anything, because then the opposite thoughts and words could do the same, but that there was no need for those thoughts or words to form in the first place.

Thanks for clarifying! glad to see you’re taking my response in the spirit intended and not as a personal attack.

I get where you’re coming from and I like the notion of radical compassion. It’s compassion that we lack in our modern society. And I agree that working on the structure of our society will help with this problem…

But, again, when do we hold people accountable for the hurtful things they say? Why are we on the hook for personal responsibility in our actions, but they get a pass on deploying language or even actions that can be just as destructive as violence? I agree we need to understand why people do hurtful things and attempt to be compassionate, but then again, it’s women and people of color on the front line of this, who are the ones receiving these rhetorical and actual slings and arrows. When is it okay to fight back, to reject our dehumanization, and who gets to decide that?

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It doesn’t matter what he says.

His explanation will be used as evidence by the nutjobs that the evil SJWs have him cornered and they’ve intimidated him into saying this.

If he rejoins Twitter they’ll say the same thing.

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The problem is that there’s been so very little room for nuance in these discussions. The feminist things Joss Whedon has done shouldn’t mean he gets a free pass from criticism on that front - and he has had some seriously questionable things in his work, from a feminist point of view- but at the same time, neither do his failures to live up to those ideals (nor his own prejudices/blind spots) mean that his feminism is fraudulent or opportunistic.

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That implies some intelligence and deliberation on the part of our opponents to foment this kind of interaction. I prefer to call the phenomenon described a circular firing squad.

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Or in other words, “Conservatives seek converts, Liberals seek traitors”.

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Conservatives are quite capable of seeking traitors, too. RINO, anyone?

Of course the world would be an ENTIRELY better place if people actually focused on the target goals instead of their own closely held paths to get there. The abortion debate was given as an example further upstream.

The goal of reducing the overall number of abortions in the country is a laudable one shared by both sides of the aisle, but heaven forfend we actually look at data that shows how sex education and free birth control greatly reduces that number. Instead one side wants to cut off access to the providers while the other calls them anti-woman.

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I know, right?

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http://diggercomic.com

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Fecking wombats!

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His options are:
Be On Twitter (and get shit heaped upon him as a result of doing that), or:
Leave Twitter (and get shit heaped upon him as a result of doing that).

If I were Whedon, I would choose “Get shit heaped upon me” for 100 points!

[ also: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2015/05/06/ ]

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Never criticize anyone ever. They might be doing what they think is a good job and criticism will give them the sads.

That or people can grow up and be adults and interested in the goals of women over their own personal pride.

Progressives seek questioning and a diversity of thought. “Liberals” less so, I guess.

I don’t think most people are saying this. Just that it’s a shame when a guy who has some great stuff seems to introduce problematic material, it makes you question how much of the planning or execution of the good or the bad was a fluke.

I think this is a product of what spaces and views you are exposed to. There really does exist a certain segment of the feminist community who do go a little far with these kinds of things, especially on Twitter. To some extent I was this segment at one point.