This is very sad. It appears the police are out of control and don’t understand they are supposed to serve and protect not just themselves.
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Maybe they should watch more Star Trek: TNG and less American Sniper.
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It would take some fancy accounting, probably changes to nearly every municipal charter, a willingness on the part of the police unions to bargain for it, and residents who won’t begin recall campaigns if public employees are getting “bonuses” (you know, those “that’s MY money” people who get all jealous that someone they view as lesser because they ‘suck at the public teet’ is getting more than minimum wage), but might put an end-run on some of the psychopathic behavior in some of our worst police forces. I would opt for better hiring decisions, bargaining for and instituting graduated penalties for misconduct in CBAs and serious changes to qualified immunity.
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Yeah, the problem is that none of that seems to be happening or if it is, it’s not working. I realize it’s probably a pipe dream, but I feel like there has been enough research on “market based” approaches solving social issues that something like this should at least be tried to see if it could make a difference. The key is that it’s not just market based, but also peer-based so it would affect every cop if one of them were bad, and presumably that would mean that they would be better at policing themselves instead of hiding behind the “blue wall.” Another interesting tactic could be to approach it like carbon credits, and pay out the bonus based on a targeted decrease in abuse claims/lawsuit settlements that continues over time - in other words, pay a bonus if there is less than $5m in settlements this year, but next year the target is $4.5m and the following year it’s $4m, That way the overall program produces increased savings over time that are directly attributable to police reforms.
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no, it’s irony because his friends got shot. if he got shot it would be expected.
is not keeping your hands raised really a lawful reason to be shot?
it isn’t like he drew a weapon or they had any reason to suspect he was carrying a weapon.
in fact this situation started out of control with cops pointing guns at people because they were riding bikes and there had be a (one) reported bike theft in the neighborhood called in by a friend of the people riding the bikes.
seems to me like a cop could have walked up to these guys and talked to them and ascertained that they were helping their friend look for his stolen bike without ever drawing a weapon.
they didn’t just kill an unarmed man, they killed an unarmed innocent man with no probable cause for suspecting him to even be a threat/danger/criminal.
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War on Poverty… Perhaps the most perverse.
Well I think that part can be explained by the obvious “get a clear shot so you don’t shoot the other guy”.
Yeah, I don’t see the officer having good cause to be fearful for his life.
The suspects weren’t acting aggressive or defiant, they were just having trouble keeping their hands up the whole time.
And the guy who was shot wasn’t even facing the officers at the time, even if he drew a gun with the obstructed hand he would have had to turn to use it, that just doesn’t seem like an imminent threat. The fact the officer spent about 2 seconds walking so he could get a better shot tells me he didn’t think it was an imminent threat either.
I just can’t see this killing as remotely justified.
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+1000
I’m amazed this argument isn’t discussed more. Somehow, using Minority Report logic is painted in our culture as “being strong.” But if you’re strong enough to take the first hit, you’re clearly stronger than your adversary, no? Otherwise, it’s just cowardly/lazy to just paint everyone as an enemy.
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I cancelled my trip to the US this year. Looks like you can get shot just for no reason.
I’m going to NZ instead - When they get a dangerous situation they call out the Armed Offenders Squad (the cops with guns).
When are they going to retrain these pitbulls?
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Not only that, the NYPD has paid out nearly half a billion dollars in settlements alone over the past five years.
These articles and the comments make me ill. There are bad & racist cops, absolutely. And they deserve to be tried and prosecuted. But, (I’m sure this isn’t the popular opinion here) most LE are good, honest people doing high-stress, little-reward jobs. I’m the spouse of a well-educated, caring, and empathetic cop. He deals with people lying, spitting on him, trying to hurt/kill him, hurting their children, throwing up on themselves, etc. everyday. He gets drug away in the middle of the night and on holidays to help people he doesn’t know. It isn’t supposed to be a fair fight…police tell people what to do to protect themselves and others. This man didn’t comply and very well could have been dangerous. They aren’t supposed to wait until they or an innocent bystander is hurt before taking action. Cops deserve to come home to their families at the end of a shift, too.
Not when they go around murdering unarmed people they don’t.
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Citation required. Where are the cops who stop the rapists, child abusers, murderers, and thieves? Where are the cops who openly seek to stop these cops, and arrest them for their crimes?
You’re helping to defend an outright murderer. Don’t you have any shame? Don’t innocent people have a right to go home to THEIR families, without being murderers by cops who are never punished for it?
Are you going to be defending the cops who sexually abuse children, and the other cops that let them get away with it? Are you going to be defending the cops who rape women, and the other cops who claim they have a right to do so?
When there are police chiefs who act like cops who rape women over traffic violations is acceptable, you don’t get to complain when people act like all cops are bastards. If they weren’t bastards, they wouldn’t keep being cops.
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This man didn’t comply and very well could have been dangerous.
Anyone could be dangerous. You, and everyone in your family, could be dangerous. Are you seriously suggesting that we should just summarily execute everyone in the nation (including yourself) without a trial? Whether or not they’ve ever committed any crime? Even kids can be dangerous, slaughter them all just in case. That kind of thinking is the problem right there. “Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!” is not how our legal system is intended to work - for a good reason.
They aren’t supposed to wait until they or an innocent bystander is hurt before
taking actionmurdering innocent citizens for no reason whatsoever.
If you or I walked down the street just randomly attacking or murdering people, we would be dealt with very harshly. If a cop (who is supposed to be a trusted authority) does it, there are NO CONSEQUENCES WHATSOEVER.
I empathize with you, but unfortunately, the lesson that our younger generation is learning (and even those of us that are older) is that if you see a cop, the safest thing to do is to either run or else shoot first and ask questions later - because cops will attack and even shoot you, for no reason whatsoever, and will never be held accountable for it. There is no due process of law. You never need be accused of a crime, let alone tried and convicted of it. You’ll never get a trial. Cops can and do just attack and/or execute people on a whim. And then they’ll charge the victim with random BS like “resisting arrest” although there was no cause for arrest in the first place. They know that they can, and do get away with it. That is extremely dangerous.
The worse lesson that some people will see is that, as a citizen, it’s your civic duty to stop them. After all, there’s a war against terrorism on, and in our country, the terrorists wear blue uniforms. Yes that’s a wingnut thought but believe me, people are thinking it.
That’s really very unfortunate for the good cops. And the vast majority are good, they’re trying very hard to help people, to make the world a better place, and dealing with a lot of terrible, unpleasant stuff. They’re suffering intense stress and situations that none of us would ever want to deal with and they’re doing it all to help us. But they’re going to get caught in the crossfire as long as the criminals in uniform keep getting away with murder.
- People are afraid to call the police when they should (which puts all of us in more danger)
- People will run when they shouldn’t (which puts all of us in more danger).
- People will open fire on cops as a defensive measure (which puts all of us in danger).
- Scared cops will open fire on people when they shouldn’t (which puts all of us in more danger).
It’s getting to the point where it’s critical that we address this. It’s becoming a serious danger to both good cops and civilians (never mind the bad cops and criminals).
So why don’t the good cops do anything? Their life is on the line! They’d be much more likely to come home to their families at the end of their shift if people respected them and believed them to be safe and trustworthy.
Unfortunately, this issue really needs good cops to stand up and insist upon full accountability for bad cops. We need good cops to refuse to accept the situation. We need them to speak up. We need them to demand that the criminal cops get punished for their crimes. That’s the only way to show everyone that cops are generally trustworthy. When cops themselves speak out against it, and take action, opinion will turn in their favor. Until then, this is going to get worse and worse.
Appointing some outside agency to babysit the cops will not solve the problem. People will not respect cops that need a babysitter. The cops themselves have to do it. They have to earn back the respect that has been lost.
What are they afraid of? Retribution from the bad cops? Is it so bad that even cops are afraid of cops? Even though the good outnumber the bad many to one?
Let’s figure it out. How do we fix this?
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Thank you for taking the time to respond to and engage @mojo with an intelligent , reasoned, and compassionate reply. I confess I had mojo written off as a copologist trolley before I got to the end of the second sentence of their post.
I want to try to answer the question I quoted. It’s all IMO, YMMV, IANAL etc.
At least two factors are at work
- moral courage
- loyalty
The “good cops” apparently lack, as a group, the necessary moral fortitude to stand up and declare that one of their comrades has done wrong
And this is because…
Loyalty is a screwy thing. We naked apes, as individuals, are pathetically weak and vulnerable, but we have evolved a survival mechanism that makes us dangerous as hell in large groups. Part of that mechanism is for the individual to subordinate their personal motives to those of a group, and the way we describe that subordination is to say a person is loyal
The problem for “good cops” is that it’s all too easy for them to give their loyalty to OTHER COPS.
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So “disobeying orders” is a capital offense now?
I’m amazed that the judge was able to convict and sentence him in such an incredibly short time, but there’s no question - that man was guilty of disobeying orders!
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