Laverne Cox shares her thoughts about Caitlyn Jenner


#1

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#2

That’s one of those things that, in an ideal world, wouldn’t need to be said. But since we don’t live in an ideal world I’m glad Ms. Cox is saying it. It feels like it gets us a little closer.


#3

One of the WEIRDEST things about Caitlyn and Laverne is seeing the media treat them like women.

And by that, I mean considering how hot they are to be a very relevant thing to discuss.

I mean, guess it’s a kind of success of sorts for Laverne and Caitlyn and trans women everywhere - to be so considered a woman that people feel as comfortable judging your body as they do the body of any actress. But it’s also kind of a failure for society, that the most interesting thing some dinkuses can think to say about them is that they shore are purdy.

I wonder what a transwoman’s view of media objectification is. I bet it’s nuanced and interesting as friiiiiiiiiig.


#4

So here is something fun.

Large firearm site I go to had a guy cause a stir cosplaying a female pirate for Halloween last year. I mean like an “8 or 9” pull off.

He just came out as being transgendered yesterday “ask a transgendered Republican who has a massive gun collection anything”. And 3 other members said “me too”.

The reaction was overwhelmingly “we don’t care, live and let live” and “do what makes you happy”.


#5

Not necessarily. You’re talking about two of the biggest names in this human rights issue. The average Jo isn’t always going to be so insightful.

For a number of years I was involved in a field that brought me into regular contact with a group of transwomen at various stages of the process and I can tell you that all except for one of those people (out of dozens) continued to treat other women as if they were still men: interrupting us when we spoke, assuming that what they thought was more important to be heard, not liking our ideas until one of them mentioned the exact same idea later, etc. There’s a Bell curve of social awareness when it comes to this issue, just like any other.


#6

Thanks for sharing!

It’s interesting - I suppose becoming a woman and thus becoming subject to that male possessiveness doesn’t necessarily translate to a greater awareness of that dynamic (ie, they don’t see men acting that way toward them as much ciswomen might). Certainly speaks to the cultural weight of those things - even if you’re so sure you are another gender that you’re willing to change your hormones, your presentation, even your body in some cases, you don’t necessarily know what you’re signing up for. Changing minds is harder than changing sex organs. :slight_smile:


#7

I would say changing one’s socialization rather than changing one’s mind, since the whole reason for the process is because the mind knows something the body doesn’t.


#8

I have a hypothesis that this has a lot to do with age of transistion as well as the culture they benefitted from. In my experience Transwomen who transition in their teens and early 20s do seem to be less likely to act like this than those who transistion when they are 40+, although there are some young transwomen who will act like you described. It is hard to forget years of behaviour that was encouraged by the people around you and it only becomes harder the longer you wait, likewise early rejection of this behaviour means that it is easier to relearn.

When I transistioned I felt I had very little in common with the late transitioners who had benefitted from years of living as male, I still feel like that even as I approach that age myself. I was an early transitioner. I would have transitioned before my teens if I felt like I would have had support (Carlisle was (and still is) very socially conservative even if they did usually vote Labour, and this was the time of the trans/homophobic Section 28 and the newspapers talking about the loony left, and transitioning before your 20s was almost unheard of.). I had an abortive attempt to transition in my teens, with suggestions I would be thrown out of my parents house (They would be horrified to be reminded that they did that now) then became severely depressed ending my plans to go to university and transistion there, before finally succeeding shortly after I moved away from my parents when I became 21. I didn’t have decades of male privelege to fall back on and I didn’t want it, I doubt I would have survived long enough for me to get any benefit from it anyway. Attitudes were starting to change then by that point with Hayley Cropper being a regular on Coronation Street (the character doing in the UK what Caitlyn Jenner will hopefully achieve in the US) athough I felt the character didn’t really represent what I was experiencing.

I will admit that you have worked with more trans people than I have, and you may have seen things differently from what I saw from the ten or so people I regularly associated with.


#9

That’s good to hear, although it is still common to be rejected by socially conservative people regardless of their political affiliation.

I suspect the trans person wouldn’t want to be referred to as ‘he’ though. I know it takes some getting used to the change in pronouns so I hope I don’t sound like I’m attacking you over it. Just keep correcting yourself and eventually you’ll get it right without even thinking about it.


#10

Well on a forum, where everyone is an avatar, I usually default to just “he”. I can’t often keep straight who is who unless they have a name like “gamergurl” to remind me. But if I interacted with that person day to day and they looked like a woman, I’d be using the female pronouns. And I am not 100% sure how this person is living right now - with a beard as in some of his pics - or as a woman, as in some of her others (whew that’s confusing). But he… she expressed interest in getting the hormone and going through the process.

As to rejection etc, what was key here is the guy/gal was on the forum for awhile. She is basically like every one else. Actually much cooler as he had a massive truck and the examples of his collection were envious. He basically showed what I learned years ago about gays - they are just like the rest of us in pretty much every way but one. Any fear or rejection based solely on that fact is illogical and ridiculous now that you think about it.


#11

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