Ah, the old Ford argument. 
Which holds even more true for ‘roboticised’ stuff like services rather than goods (law, banking, insurance and so on). Who WILL buy that stuff when NOBODY has a job?
Honestly, I think these super-right-wing people are in a conspiracy to force UBI to happen sooner rather than later. They just have to appear to be evil for ther beneficent plan to work. (/s, obvs)
2 Likes
So, basically, screw the poor? Because that’s what happens. You can’t solve every problem with the public sector and expect the people who are unable to shell out for to be able to thrive.
About a quarter of it, yes. Doesn’t mean he’s right or that the attack on public education is justified. Just because the opposition won doesn’t mean the rest of us should shut up.
9 Likes
Eh - it may be time to nationalize businesses like the Koch’s - that undermine needed institutions. No skin off my nose if they’re deleted.
14 Likes
It’s not just the Ford argument, it was also used by the late 19th century labor movement, too. Like it or not, consumption and production are linked, and if you have people working for starvation wages, they aren’t going to be able to consume and help sustain the economy.
Again, starvation wages, if the right wing institutes a UBI.
6 Likes
I believe Amazon is working on that technology, yes.
2 Likes
They’re more thank linked, the modern US economy is almost entirely consumption limited. Cut back on consumption and the economy falters. Increase supply and basically nothing happens, they weren’t supply constrained in the first place. We live in an era of plenty, there are few cases where supply is the bottleneck.
6 Likes
You are correct, of course. My cynicism falls short again.
After all, with low consumption the only people paying for UBI will be these rich monsters, via the taxes they and their corporations pay, so starvation wages if you are lucky.
2 Likes
I know you’re joking here, but this reminded me of the plot question I had about the new blade runner mivie:how does a hologram buy a gift for her owner?
And the more I think about it, I may be victim to a larger delusion about slavery having been abolished. Robots aren’t a viable market because (of course) they are already %100 owned. But human beings could only have 50% autonomy, and there would still be marketing pressures to decide the other half. 90%, doesn’t matter, there’s still money to be made. It doesn’t matter how close to slavery the human labor force gets, as long as there is any tiny sliver of buying choice among the populace, capitalism marches along as if it’s perfect freedom.
So, yeah, good joke. And the joke is on us.
2 Likes
But that’s been true for a long time. It’s not a new or novel development. Of course, we can probably come up with other ways of structuring our economy that doesn’t rest on consumerism, but getting there (like getting to a consumer economy) is a bumpy ride at least. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push for it, of course. Because we can blame consumerism for a number of ills, but workers tended to respond to the situation at hand, with fewer actually looking at the broader picture and proposing structural solutions.
But back to the topic at hand, I’d say it’s that consumerist mindset that’s part of the problem regarding how we view public education. Education isn’t really something we can commoditize easily (like public health, land, etc) without serious consequences to the nature of education. the expansion of public education, whatever it’s sort of sometimes problematic origins (basically educating a work force for the industrial economy, modeling it partially on prison systems, etc). But it’s also been an undeniable public good, which has allowed people to pull themselves up out of poverty. it’s not perfect and it can be made much better, of course, but we should start from where we already are, I think. Maybe take some ideas of some private schools or some of the various schools of thought in education that tends to only show up in private schools and to employ them in public schools.
Never underestimate my cynicism! 
I think that’s the case, as it stands. It’s a situation where it depends on who is going to implement it and how.
4 Likes
Most people have heard the old saying that “Smooth seas never made a skilled sailor.”
I feel this same way about the personal search for inner peace: The serenity you find while meditating in a safe, peaceful, quiet place is very weak serenity indeed.
I’d just like to thank the Kochs, the Waltons, DeVos, the Mercers, and so on, for giving my sense of inner peace such a challenging workout. I would never wish, advocate, nor commit violence against another human being. You folks help me demonstrate to myself on a daily basis that I can overcome the rage that constantly threatens to overwhelm me.
4 Likes
Don’t give them new talking points please.
Although I’m quite certain this has already been argued already using other words.
“Having to fight for scraps keeps the poor going!”
1 Like
A leaked document… hold[s] out “low income families” and “good teachers” as the victims of the strike.
Has anybody pointed out how often these are the same people?
8 Likes
I love when these sorts of things come out. Now we get to sit back and watch who parrots the B.S.
First post in the thread was a “bu bu bu but what about SOROS!” dimwit.
3 Likes
I went to Catholic school with a bunch of folks who voted for him.
It builds character, and that, more than money or access to healthcare, is what the poor lack. /s
3 Likes
The secret here is that the rich don’t care if the economy falters. They can just remake the world in their image. Look at the articles that cover Peter Thiel’s compound in New Zealand. He literally has plans to reshape New Zealand’s government and society to fit his Randian mold when SHTF. And he’s not alone. Look at every tech/stock-bro and well heeled heir/ress out there. They all believe they’re fit to lead the rest of us by force if necessary. Right now, they’re looking for ways to erode the existing society in their own way. Some have joined forces but others are fighting back only because they want it their way. It’s really a scary thing to imagine that society is being preyed upon in this manner and it’s not hidden away in some secret society. It’s literally published in think tank journals and talked about in public conventions/conferences. These folks don’t hide it and don’t care if we know about it either.
6 Likes
See the next BB post - about forced prison labour putting downward pressure on wage rates. THAT will be their solution.
- Privatise prisons
- If it moves, incarcerate it.
- Exploit its enforced labour
- Inmates get absolute minimum needed to sustain life/labour without actual riots happening.
I think my cynicism may be getting back into kilter now.
4 Likes
