Let's discuss sexuality

general topics
101

I’ve more or less come to terms with it - I find getting it to the point where porn is not a compulsion and you are in control is good. At the end of the day, I don’t want sex to be as big a part of my life as my body seems to want it to be, and sexual desire doesn’t seem to work in the same way as your appetite - depending on how you act with it, you can take control and make it less compulsive. I like the implications of this cartoon:

Statistical outliers are brought up every time, and I get the idea that it’s supposed to be convincing. Personally, and this seems to be the case with other guys in this thread, testosterone’s effects on behaviour are not an issue of statistics for me. In many cases, they were both very unwelcome and traumatic, but I can live a normal life because I recognised them for what they are*. I don’t tell my wife to pull herself together when she’s having her period, because I know that her hormones and experience are having an effect on her. It’s obvious enough that I can tell when she’s going to have her period the next day, even when she can’t. I can also be irritable sometimes, but that really has nothing to do with it and my pointing out that some women don’t suffer that much or some men can act like that too is completely irrelevant. It doesn’t remove personal responsibility in either case, but as someone who experiences stuff whether I want to or not and has met many men and very few women who have similar experiences, I have to say that it’s a Thing.

@codinghorror I think this is the guy you’re referring to:

And I tell them the truth, which is that, at least for me and most guys I know, testosterone sends your sex drive straight through the roof and beyond the stratosphere. NASA should honestly use it for fuel to get those rockets (which are really just larger-than-life phallic symbols) to the moon. It is a very powerful aphrodisiac, and way better than oysters, which tend to be slimy.

Testosterone not only increased my sex drive ten-fold, but changed the nature of it as well. It became less diffuse and more goal-oriented, which is probably how the word “score” entered the sexual lexicon. It also, in certain situations, became less about any other person and more about me.

And this is what I wish I would have understood as a straight woman.

  • Hmm. That sounds really overdramatic. my point was that as with my ADHD, it’s something I had to recognise and take into account if I wanted to take control of my life.

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102

But that would sound like I like saps. I don’t. I like cranes.

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103

I disagree.

It’s well known in both pool and shooting sports circles that ladies tend to have a better time holding position for accurate shots.

No clue if it’s mostly about size or otherwise. The ladies can shoot really well, and it’s not just in your head.

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104

There isn’t much data for this, and I wish there were, but the few studies there are point to no differences in sport performance between women and men when raw strength is not involved.

and (not a study, but a good article):

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105

Sure, wasn’t there a similar story about a woman at the world series of poker who used gender stereotypes to undermine her opponents?

Gender is the source of the largest real, meaningful, statistical data and science based observations that we have on human beings. So as differences goes, it’s pretty huge, though I agree whether it matters or not is highly contextual. And for most modern day intellectual jobs and work, gender is basically irrelevant. Only a crazy person would maintain that “men are better at X” where X is say, being a manager, or being a programmer, or being a politician, etc or anything else where you’re using your brains and not muscles.

See, these are the kinds of not-subtle gender differences I am getting at. But I was referring to this

Griffin Hansbury: The most overwhelming feeling is the incredible increase in libido and change in the way that I perceived women and the way I thought about sex. Before testosterone, I would be riding the subway, which is the traditional hotbed of lust in the city. And I would see a woman on the subway, and I would think, she’s attractive. I’d like to meet her.

What’s that book she’s reading? I could talk to her. This is what I would say. There would be a narrative. There would be this stream of language. It would be very verbal.

After testosterone, there was no narrative. There was no language, whatsoever. It was just, I would see a woman who was attractive-- or not attractive. She might have an attractive quality, nice ankles or something, and the rest of her would be fairly unappealing to me. But that was enough to basically just flood my mind with aggressive pornographic images, just one after another.

It was like being in a pornographic movie house in my mind. And I couldn’t turn it off. I mean, I could not turn it off. Everything I looked at, everything I touched turned to sex.

Yeah :frowning:

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106

Victoria Coren, perhaps?

107

The problem I have with the testosterone makes men more horny than women argument is that it’s another form of men are better than women, just in a different and sexual form. I just do not see why this must be the case, that testosterone makes men imprisoned by their sexuality and women are somehow free, but less sexual. This line of reasoning to me seems flawed.

There is no rational compare. There are more sources of sexual desire than testosterone or the absence of it.

-people exist in a range of sexuality and sexual expression
-people exist in a range of sexual urges and desires
-women and men have varying degrees of sexual urges
-sexual urges do not stem from only one source within an organism
-sexual urges do not stem from the same hormonal sources within each organism in the same proprtions

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108

Those are all true. But the advantage of looking at testosterone and what it does is that it’s highly quantifiable and has a dose-response curve.

It’s basically settled science that as you increase someone’s testosterone, they become objectively more impulsive and novelty-seeking, especially in sexual contexts. Whether or not it’s “better” or “worse” is irrelevant. Biological men naturally have much higher levels of testosterone than biological women. This affects how men’s brains develop even from the embryonic stage, and colors men’s cognition their whole lives. It’s not a better or worse thing, it’s just a fact that men generally experience sex and sexuality in a different way from women because testosterone and estrogen do different things to the brain and body.

It’s not the be-all-end-all. It’s just one of the easier things to study and measure.

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109

Sure, then what drives women with high sexual impulse?

@Missy_Pants: we are othering!!! save us dammit!!!

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110

Sometimes testosterone, sometimes other factors.

I’ll have to search the literature, but I remember reading a study that pointed to higher testosterone levels in women who consistently had greater sex drives and who acted impulsively with regard to sex. It could have been poorly done etc, but I’ll have to come back with the articles and papers if I can find them.

I’m not saying that testosterone is the only thing determining sex drive but it does play a significant role. To deny that is rather dismissive of clinical evidence. It certainly increases sex drive in men. We know that from steroid research pretty definitively.

Denying that testosterone makes a difference in sexuality is akin to saying ADHD doesn’t make a difference in thinking styles. It’s not othering. It’s acknowledging that two people aren’t exactly the same in one sense or another.

ETA:
From the Mayo Clinic. Testosterone boosts libido in postmenopausal women and women who’ve had historectomies:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/menopause/expert-answers/testosterone-therapy/faq-20057935

There’s a whole pile of research at pnas.org with regard to behavioral effects of testosterone as well. This study ( http://www.pnas.org/content/106/16/6535.full.pdf?sid=85d1ddb3-ebdb-4277-b6df-614ac7a0f2ec ) says that high levels of testosterone are well-correlated with risk-taking behavior and competition. Which isn’t to say that testosterone is the only driver of that, just that there’s a pretty good chance that testosterone will modulate these behaviors. It’s not the only thing that can, but it’s one that’s pretty clearly involved.

There’s more, but if you want something specific you want to see research on, you’ll have to let me know.

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111

LOL you seem to be doing just fine! :wink:

I do worry about discussions of “brain chemicals are responsible for X behaviour” tho… I mean… if too much testosterone is that much of an issue then what about testosterone inhibitors?

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112

Yeah, this is what I mean by having come to terms with it. There are plenty of things I enjoy about having testosterone, but it does colour this kind of interaction and the way you see sex, to the point where you have to account for it and sometimes actively work against it if you want to have more normal relationships. ADHD is ok in certain contexts too, but there are times when it’s just unhelpful and has negatively affected my work.

In both cases it doesn’t have to determine my life, but I have no trouble pointing to the issue and pretending that it doesn’t have a profound effect on my actions would be denial. There are many other things that attract me to someone, so putting that side in its place is part of the process toward enjoying those elements more and getting on with others better.

Actually, this is one of the reasons why I think more focus on female sexuality here is important - not because women are completely different animals, but because there do seem to be significant differences in areas like attraction.

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113

I seem to recall something about alcohol raising testosterone, and the UK recently having a spot of bother about roving gangs of ‘ladettes’; hens’ nights and other gatherings of ladies out on the town (apparently women drinking to excess has been a bit of a trend there of late), sexually harassing lone men. Goes to show, IMO…

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I drink quite a little bit, and I’ve already got plenty of testosterone. I don’t assault the ladies. They’re my friends and I care what they think.

Knowing where the lines are (even when smashed) is part of being a Good Guy™.

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115

Um, pretty sure I wasn’t trying to excuse assault with testosterone… although I bet it’s harder to handle a dose if you’re not used to it.

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116

No, didn’t mean to insinuate that…This is just my data point, and I know it’s valid because it’s me. :smile:

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117

Testosterone has a hell of a kick, …but also a hell of an aftertaste…

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118

Um…nuts?

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119

Plantains, dude. WTF?

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120

Hmm

Dudes

Both chronic and acute alcohol consumption have been shown in most (but not all) studies to inhibit testosterone production in the testes. This is believed to be caused by the metabolism of alcohol reducing the NAD+/NADH ratio both in the liver and the testes

Ladies

Women have a different response to alcohol intoxication. Studies have shown that acute alcohol consumption tends to cause increased levels of testosterone and estradiol.

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