As long as you don’t want change, you just want conflict for its own sake, because you get off on Jihad, that’s a pretty attractive justification.
If you want real change you will have to do better.
1 Like
Hey everyone lets do just that. Just ignore this guy.
10 Likes
Assigning primary responsibility for fixing an unfair system to the group that benefited most from it historically and consequently has the most power to effect change does not preclude the participation of others; if anything it does the opposite.
5 Likes
10 Likes
“Assignment of blame” to a larger category of person than the persons actually responsible for whatever blame you are assigning, based on morphological similarities, is the way to create opposition from potential allies.
It’s bad strategy.
If you want to win, don’t use bad strategies.
But, if you just want conflict, and don’t ever want the damage to stop, then it’s not bad strategy at all - which is why the talking heads and pundits will encourage you to do it. They profit from leading troops, not from bringing justice to all.
1 Like
I myself am a member of the group to which I’m assigning primary responsibility for fixing the unfair system. I don’t feel particularly alienated in acknowledging historical facts (which any potential ally would also acknowledge).
7 Likes
The problem is that everyone has benefitted disproportionally to each other. You could break it down into categories, which is discrimination, but unless you can take every factor in someones life into it we’ve all benefited.
You have white people who on average, have benefitted the most, but like I said, most people in North America have benefitted from the genocide of Native Americans, who have benefitted the least.
Who benefits the most from the current system?
An able bodied black woman who inherited wealth in her 30s?
An average income hispanic man with a physical disability and no support from family in his 40s?
A broke white man with a physical disability over 50?
An average income Asian man who didn’t have her education paid for in her 20s?
It’s easy to say, black people are like this, or white people are like that, but that is discrimination. Pointing to someone in a crowd, you have no idea who they are or what kind of life they’ve had. They might have just won the lottery or been recovered as a human trafficking victim. It’s ok to say the system benefits certain types of people, but lets not make it personal.
If you tell someone “you are the problem because you’re XXX”, you are discriminating, and not focusing on the real problem. The real problem might be incompetent policing, or rape culture, or corporate power.
From the Patriarchy as implemented in the U.S. since its founding? Nope.
Yes, in the positive and beneficial way allowed for in your preferred definition of “discrimination.”
11 Likes
That’s a very good reason why you should not trust your judgement, and should do some objective experimentation designed to false your intuition.
Blame-assignment helps preserve power structures. Divide, and rule.
Do you want to win, or just want to fight? Decide, and then figure out your best path to your goal based on objective reality. Experiment is your friend. Walk cold into a room full of people who don’t know you, who are potential allies and enemies, give your piece in different ways, and see what happens.
EDIT: took out distracting other point, poorly made.
1 Like
That might be a valid point if it were the argument anyone here is making but it’s not. No one here told you you’re part of the problem because you’re white, in spite of your claim that someone did.
In the interests of civility and honesty try addressing what others are really saying, not what you claim they’re saying.
9 Likes
I asked you for examples of where I was uncivil, it would help if you could point me to a specific comment. If there’s point you, or someone else made that you think I ignored, please let me know.
I provided you with a link to a specific comment. Don’t blame me for your unwillingness to acknowledge it.
6 Likes
I missed that comment, sorry, I’m getting a lot of replies. That person and I were having some pretty intense conversation, and we decided to end it because it was becoming uncivil.
Is there a point you want me to address that you think I’ve ignored?
Also, as I mentioned, the comment was removed because it was racist and sexist.
10 Likes
Thank you for that. I’m sorry my edit didn’t make it in quicker. It isn’t a point I wanted to get entangled in, as it is not very important to me; if people don’t believe that there are differential privileges inside groups, that’s something I need to learn to compensate for - whether they are right or wrong, calling them out will not serve to strengthen the causes I wish to promote.
Exactly; so aren’t those the people you need to have for allies? Isn’t it worthwhile to find out what suasions are most effective, and which are not?
2 Likes
Objective reality says: white males have historically benefited from this unfair system; as a result, white males have the most power to reform or destroy it.
9 Likes
Sorry, I time-traveled! My response is above yours.
1 Like
Allies who don’t acknowledge objective reality or who get butthurt when others acknowledge it aren’t effective allies.
8 Likes
I’m not talking about acknowledgement. I’m talking about categorization, but unfortunately that tends to be derailed into acknowledgement arguments very easily.
I personally will acknowledge my responsibility for every evil thing that has ever happened or will happen, throughout all time. It’s part of my religion.
Do you know about how the Democratic Party refused to learn from Lakoff? I think you’d find it an interesting subject, from what I know of your views.
That seems contrary to your primary point. a “blank slate” do-over is racist, who does that benefit? only one side. a blank slate start assumes we are at a level playing field, nope, we are far far from done.
Amasty for the perpetrators is focusing on the impact to the privileged entitled side that has been the historical perpetrators. What about reparations for everyone else?
Also, with issues like racism, it sometimes take generations to untangle that shit. There is active racism and biases, and implicit ones. Many people are aware enough to not foster active racism, but the implicit discrimination is much more slow and difficult to change.
For example: One might not consciously discriminate for a management position, but due to their entire life seeing only white male managers, are more likely to unconsciously view white males as being more manager material and pass over women, people of color, people with disabilities, people with tattoos or other marks, etc. Not because they are against any one group, it is a bias they likely aren’t even aware they carry. This is why active affirmative action is so important, it gets people into those roles so that everyone quickly becomes used to managers of all shapes, sizes, colors, whatever, it resets the societal norm, so to speak.
this.
Not less quantity, but maybe better quality? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
stay quiet? think of all the wrong things said about bread while you were away? better get in there…
Uh oh Melz, time to produce that long form birth certificate… smdh. sorry you have to deal with this shit here… 
11 Likes
