You said this, so I asked if you could point to an instance where I ignored a point someone made.
I understand the distinction. The fact is that white males of all sorts get a lot of privilege from the American Patriarchy whether we ask for it or not. That my atheism (for example) is cause for that same system discounting my views does not obviate the privilege it accords me based on what it values most (being in both the white-skin and penis-having categories)
I’m familiar with Lakoff. I just disagree with him that people who need a strict daddy in a leadership role for themselves or those they consider “undeserving” or “childish” are going to be useful allies for liberals and progressives.
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Have I ever mentioned that I also have some Native American heritage mixed up in my ‘DNA cocktail’ as well?
Again, the irony of a person of privilege condescending to people who have been historically oppressed about how they need to go about fighting for equality is just astounding.
Therein lies the real problem in this complete failure to communicate; conversations are a two way street.
Why should I bother to listen anyone who clearly has no interest in listening to me?
Why would I give any credence whatsoever to their input, when they actively choose to ignore mine, despite the fact that I have a lifetime of experience of dealing with social inequality, firsthand?
No problem can be resolved if one person just arbitrarily decides that they ‘have all the answers’ and then refuses to listen to any of the people actively impacted by the problems which need to be fixed.
To reiterate what Mags posted yesterday:
REAL allies for societal progress and equality know all too well that they can not be ‘the saviors’ of any oppressed people; the victims of oppression and injustice need to be able to lead their own charge themselves and to tell their own stories, in their own voices… and their allies can aid in that endeavor by believing them, and helping facilitate their ongoing fight.
Sure, I’ll get right on that; all interested parties should take a deep breath and hold it while they wait… 
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Acknowledging that certain groups of people have historically benefited from various forms of oppression isn’t the same thing as saying that entire group is to blame, which is where this conversation keeps getting tripped up.
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This conversation is being tripped up by the clown shoes worn by the OP. The discussion has reeled out of control, and will move further afield at OP’s whim. it’s to the point it cannot be taken seriously.
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Welp, in that case, derisive gifs it is then!
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Quick interjection before I jump off this pointless hamster wheel of a conversation for good;
I personally don’t automatically “blame” any person who has privilege for the current status quo… unless they refuse to acknowledge the existence of that privilege and/or they actively, intentionally benefit from economic disparity, genderism, and/or racial inequality. (45’s admin and all his enablers are an excellent example of such people of privilege whom I do hold accountable; all those fuckers can go DIAF, for all I care.)
Long story short, I know who my true allies are, by the consistency of their actions.
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Agreed. I’m done here.
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Absolutely!
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I’m not white or male, but when I learn about an injustice or social problem that I’m contributing to my response is to find out what I can do to put things right. I don’t deny it or complain that I’ve been indentified as contributing, and I certainly don’t demand that the subject only be discussed in ways that don’t make me uncomfortable.
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Never going to happen.
While I agree more prejudice will harm our cause, the truth of the matter is that the Most powerful and dangerous group of people of this very nation are White High-Class Cis-Male Christians that owes their fortunes to Resource Extraction, Gambling, and Slavery. Sure Not all White and Not all Cis-males are guilty of this, but there’s a 0.01% of the global Population that are willing to kill all life on earth in order to protect their lifestyles and power over all of creation.
I’m Sorry, but the White Elites of America will have to be depowered so that Humanity have a fighting chance against Tyranny and extinction; Otherwise, said tyranny will lead to the extinction of the Human Race.
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ETA:
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I agree that our current leaders are leading us to extinction.
Pointing out the colour of their skin doesn’t help anything. Do we want Bernie Sanders running the country or Ajit Pai?
Saying white leaders are this, and non-white leaders are that, is discrimination. Yes, many white leaders are bad, and many leaders are white, but they could be replaced with equally unpleasant non white people. Many of the leaders in other countries are non-white tyrants.
Many of them are oil barons, with agendas that will end the earth as we know it. Doesn’t matter what colour their skin is. Just their values.
As one newb to another, stop. Just stop. Seriously, stop. I promise you things will be better if you stop.
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I took out the “all”, my bad.
Yes!
Unfortunately, we all seem to believe that if our cause is just, then we don’t have to be careful to use the language of acknowledgement, it’s perfectly OK to use the language of blame. If anyone else objects they are just being too “politically correct” and should be mocked. It’s rare to see anyone admit to framing beliefs poorly and strengthening the obduracy of the opposition.
We all want to be the white hats, I guess. That’s at least a good motive, eh? But I also want to win.
I think I have a dim view of the educational systems of the United States, and I am suspicious of some implementations of affirmative action.
In the mythical perfect world I am trying to create, that I will not live to see, educational and economic opportunities will be available to every person, and in that world a single generation of affirmative action would decisively break the unthinking cycles that @redesigned referenced, that uphold structural racism.
Unfortunately, in my area the majority of the poor are people of color, and economic discrimination is perfectly legal, so the quality of education available to the poor is going downhill fast, and zero-tolerance policies push the poor directly from the ghetto to prison, and employers have shifted all the factory jobs overseas, and retail’s being killed by Amazon and big-box stores that pay minimum wage, and every job remaining - except the very high-knowledge jobs and very poorly paid service jobs - is being automated away. This means affirmative action is not very effective here, although it at least means local people of color who are highly privileged can get decent work.
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The point I’m getting to is this:
Not all White are Guilty of this.
Neither all of the Christians, or the Cis-males.
But a vast majority of the “Robber Barons” here in these United States, came from a line of other “Robber Barons” that relies on crimes against nature and Humanity; i.e. those who support European Imperialism for the Sake of Resources and Status.
It’s just so happen that they’re Cis-males, Christians, and of Roman Descent.
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