Lies Actually

[Papasan]

@andy_hilmer

“pro-life” beteen “pro-protoplasm” and “pro-mold”.

pro-meat popsicle too

[JeanBaptiste]

Continuing your analogy: If you plant a seed, water it, give it sunlight, and it germinates and produces a shoot, and you were to then dig into the ground at any point thereafter and pull the shoot from the soil and destroy it before it reaches the surface, then yes, you have killed the plant.

Of course, some people pull shoots from the ground and sell them, and some people eat shoots too, so you could probably still make a little money on the deal, plant or no.

[Thebarton_Gamer]

@JeanBaptiste

Of course, some people pull shoots from the ground and sell them, and some people eat shoots too, so you could probably still make a little money on the deal, plant or no.

A Modest Proposal.

[anon67050589]

@JeanBaptiste

But pro choice people are in favor of certain unwanted people being killed

Nope. We don’t even have to argue “when life begins”…pro-choice people are often quite certain they wouldn’t choose abortion for themselves, usually for their own personal religious or philosophical reasons. Once again, it’s not pro-abortion, it’s pro-choice.

[anon68952647]

@JeanBaptiste

But pro choice people are in favor of certain unwanted people being killed before those unwanted people ever get the choice of being anti choice people or pro choice people.

‘not against’ is not the same as ‘in favor of’.

For people in favor of not bearing false witness, y’all seem to use a lot of logical fallcies in your 'splainin

[anon68952647]

@ZeroGravitas

Peace and love, motherfuckers! Practice it! You think you’re better than your opponent? Prove it.

[JeanBaptiste]

@AcerPlatanoides

For people in favor of not bearing false witness, y’all seem to use a lot of logical fallcies in your 'splainin

What people might you be referring to?

[anon68952647]

@JeanBaptiste

What people might you be referring to?

my strawmen. i’m lining them up to fight yours.

[chenille]

@JeanBaptiste

Of course, some people pull shoots from the ground and sell them, and some people eat shoots too, so you could probably still make a little money on the deal, plant or no.

I’m confused. Is this some strange analogy to the libels saying Planned Parenthood was profiting off tissue sales, or did we actually just segue into talking about asparagus? I mean, I suppose they might be a religious issue too, I don’t know.

[JeanBaptiste]

@AcerPlatanoides

‘not against’ is not the same as ‘in favor of’.

For some reason, I get the feeling that if I had instead said “not against”, you would now be saying " ‘in favor of’ is not the same as ‘not against’ "?

How’s chances?

[Melted_Crayons]

why are those against abortion often against contraception? or restricting who can use it? why aren’t they trying to prevent unwanted pregnancy (other than saying “don’t have sex”)? this is really an issue about controlling people – keeping people in particular levels of power/powerlessness, an assumed ownership of females, etc.

[anon34812172]

It was a pretty good derail, no?

[anon68952647]

[anon34812172]

Alf is having a seizure because of all the dead baby sprouts.

[Thebarton_Gamer]

Don’t Not Have Sex - PSA

[ejconrad]

I’m pretty sure the ‘noogie’ button is shaped like a valentine heart on here anyways. Thanks Obama.

[shaddack]

@Mister44

First off - is life sacred? It is worth protecting?

From what level of complexity? Where’s the cutoff for life that’s not sacred (single-cellular mechanisms, simple insects…) and that’s virtually certainly worth protecting (fully formed humans)? Isn’t there a continuum here, whether in the adult organism complexity (species vs species comparison) or in the temporal development complexity (zygote vs fetus with different levels of development of brain - as that’s what really matters for the self-perception - vs fully-formed viable entity capable of surviving in the outside environment)?

@Mister44

Since science can’t really give us a hard answer though on when life starts, they Catholics just roll it back to the earliest point - conception.

Life doesn’t “start”. It just doesn’t stop. The cells that produce the gametes are alive. The gametes are alive as well. The zygote too. No major this-is-something-qualitatively-different exists anywhere in the process. If the argument would be about cell groups with DNA different to their host, then the exception could apply also to the gametes themselves (randomly picked half of the host genes) - see Every Sperm is Sacred - and even to many types of cancers.

[AnthonyC]

@Chesterfield

When I talk to you, should I first decide what it is I want to call you, or should I accept your choice of chgoliz and move forward with the discussion?

At the start of the discussion, you should use his chosen name. That’s being a charitable discussant.

If chgoliz proceeds to spend decades vilifying you as a person, then you can go ahead and make a few changes.

EDIT TO ADD: Also, I think one of the reasons this is such a hard issue to discuss is that it’s not just an ethical disagreement, it is often also a meta ethical disagreement. However people phrase their positions in public forums, most though not all pro-lifers that I’ve met start from “Moral imperatives derive from authoritative source X,” whereas most pro-choicers I’ve met start from “Moral imperatives come from first principle X or consequentialist goal Y.”

[anon34812172]

@shaddack

Life doesn’t “start”. It just doesn’t stop.

Very well said. The dividing lines used in the public debate are arbitrary and nonscientific.

[anon50609448]

@shaddack

Life doesn’t “start”. It just doesn’t stop. The cells that produce the gametes are alive. The gametes are alive as well. The zygote too. No major this-is-something-qualitatively-different exists anywhere in the process. If the argument would be about cell groups with DNA different to their host, then the exception could apply also to the gametes themselves (randomly picked half of the host genes) - see Every Sperm is Sacred - and even to many types of cancers.

And we have to think forward about technology too. Cloning human beings is just a question of technical proficiency. If I were to extract a few cells from my stomach lining now and freeze them properly, their potential to become a separate human being would greatly exceed the potential of any particular sperm or egg. It may even rival a fertilized egg. Are millions of people dying in my stomach?