Originally published at: https://boingboing.net/2020/05/19/norma-roe-v-wade-mccorvey.html
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While I would prefer we reduce the number of abortions needed though other means, the anti-abortion stance really has no legs to stand on. Their message of life matters at any cost rings hollow when they also allow single mothers and babies to starve or live in perpetual poverty. And this - Jesus Christ. If you can’t rationally and ethically defend your position and instead have to manipulate and propagandize your position - it means your position is full of shit.
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Woman. Her doctor.
If you aren’t one of them, STFU and go away.
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Yeah, she didn’t “pretend” to change her mind. She went from think abortion was very important to thinking it was much less important than getting paid.
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It has nothing to do with concern for any kind of life. It is all about turning women into property of the state. The fetus worshiper crowd has zero regard for people, those born. So their alleged worrying about the unborn is just bullshit preening for others.
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Ok, I know I’ll be excoriated for this, but see both pro-life and pro-choice as full of it. Each spouts off stuff that plays well to their own, but is in reality rather sloppy logic. The fact that purists of both sides feel necessary to misquote and mischaracterize the other makes me despise both.
Am I surprised she got paid? No. It was a sideshow.
Am I surprise others are making an issue of it. No. It’s a sideshow.
It’s a messy complicated horrible subject and anyone who tells you what the answer should be is just trying to save their own sanity rather than go insane trying to solve the unsolvable.
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As you should. Pro-Choice is not the one resorting to lying to the public, underhanded collateral attacks or undermining civil liberties.
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Well, you’re half right.
Look, you can’t force someone to donate blood, a kidney, or anything else no matter how desperately it is needed. Forcing a woman to complete an unwanted pregnancy is no different.
No, not really, bodily autonomy is a very straightforward idea.
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She was paid off. So does anyone get in trouble for this?
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Why am I not surprised conservatives had to bribe someone to believe as they do?
This should be really simple- her body her choice.
If they spent half as much time caring about the people who are already alive as the people they keep defending who aren’t even born yet with a functioning brain the world would be a lot better place
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Unfortunately, probably not. Lying to the general public is generally legal and the supporters of the groups who funded it will just think of it like paying an actor for political ads, and just not see a problem.
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I fail to see how the logic of the pro-choice argument is sloppy, or its equivalence with the “pro-life” argument.
Abortion is a complicated ethical and moral issue, it’s a huge grey area that good people can come to different conclusions on - and there can be solid medical reasons for some abortions.
Therefore it’s not something that should be illegal, and the decision to have an abortion should be between the individual, their doctor and their conscience.
And most people who believe this, and argue for it, are pretty consistent in applying a similar principal to other issues.
The “pro-life” position is at best consistent only in isolation, and the people that push it the hardest usually fail to apply a similar principal to any other issue.
Those examples are complicated ethical and moral issues too. Bodily autonomy and self-determination are the very straightforward ideas that make it clear forcing an ethical or moral position on someone, especially when its not a cut and dried choice, is a bad thing.
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The concept of body autonomy only seems non-controversial when applied to men. Otherwise people seem to lose their fundamentalist shit when it comes up. Straightforward on the surface, but for people who choose to live with cognitive dissonance on a daily basis, nothing can be straightforward.
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I am deeply disappointed in humanity and how easily people are bought so that they will toe the line against their own ethical beliefs and prop up a position they disagree with. But damned if that doesn’t tell us so much about our current regime.
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So-called conservatives: Abortion is the worst thing ever and our god hates it - bigly! Selling your soul to make a buck? We can work with that!
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You all seem to be under the mistaken assumption I’m going to defend either sides arguments or actions. It precisely the “Here’s a simple reason” reasoning that I find disappointing on both sides. The “They are a bunch of jerks” reasoning is even worse. That’s just ad hominem arguments.
If I knew the right answer … I’d be a fool. And I’m not going to put more faith in others than I would myself.
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Poverty has been weaponized.
That’s my take away from this story. That conservatives oppose social programs because currently they can always find someone who will sing whatever tune is needed to keep the rest of the poors in line.
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The leaders of the anti-choice movement, as evinced by their logic-challenged arguments and grifting actions, are inveterate liars, cheaters and BSers. That’s one of the reasons that they, along with ammosexuals, are at the rotten core of movement conservatism in America.
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Abortion is, first and foremost and above all else, a PERSONAL issue. Nobody in the entire world other than the pregnant woman is going to face any medical risks associated with carrying a fetus to term. The pregnant woman is the one person in the world who is most emotionally involved with the effects of pregnancy, and the results of giving birth. Given those facts, it should be obvious to anyone with even half a brain that the pregnant woman is the only person in the entire world who has the right to decide whether or not she has an abortion. The idea that anyone else anywhere has any right to put limits on her choice is an obscene violation of her rights. The idea that it can be “right” to force her to continue a pregnancy she does not want is an idea that can exist only in the minds of would-be tyrants and those who want to have their minds enslaved by someone else.
Some have argued the state has a legal interest in a woman’s pregnancy. Horse shit. The woman is not state property. She did not become pregnant as the result of a state-run or state-funded program. She did not lease her fetus to the state. She did not promise to deliver her fetus to the state. The fetus is not state property. The state does not have a lien on it. It is not a ward of the state, a criminal, or a recipient of state funds. It is not a signatory to any agreements with the state. It owes the state nothing. There are absolutely NO legal grounds for the state to claim any interest in a fetus.
Some may argue the state has an interest in the matter and the right to set limits because of the state’s mandate to take measures to ensure the health of the people. But in that case, the state should consider itself bound to facilitate abortions for women who face serious medical complications because of pregnancy. The woman is a living citizen toward whom the state has legal obligations. A fetus is a thing which may or may not become a citizen some day. Any government which enacts laws which prioritize the life and health of a thing, a potential human, above the life and health of a living, breathing human, is guilty of wilful dereliction of duty.
We should not be at all surprised by the revelation that anti-abortion forces paid a woman who needed money to tell lies. After all, telling lies is the favorite sport, the passion, the meat and drink of right-wing Christstain fanatics everywhere. It is always their first choice when they have to decide what to say on any issue. They lie as automatically as they breathe - because they hate and fear truth. Because they know that their Christstain doctrine is correct in that old saying, “Know ye the truth, for the truth will set you free.” In this case, the truth is that somebody else’s pregnancy is none of their God damn business. Acting on that truth would set people free. And the real, rock-bottom truth is, freedom is the absolute LAST thing that a true Christstain wants for anybody.
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