I think that a simple, guiding light for voting on issues arising from the (democratically regulated) bond market is, why borrow when there’s the power to tax?
That’s of course how the GOP has come to be so not unified and not popular with working people. The “free” market gave everyone entitled rich kids ponies. 
Meanwhile back in the real world where people have jobs and dependents …
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“job creators” are those who create jobs. You know, the ones who hire & fire employees - businesspeople of all sizes, genders, races, inheritances, and haircuts.
The middle class, mainly consisting of employees, are obviously a necessary part of the economy, but “job creators” we ain’t.
Well, 65% of new jobs since 1995 are from small businesses. Small business employ over half the workforce. 52% of small businesses are based from homes. Millions have no employees other than the owner. The overlap between “people who create jobs” and “middle class” is non-negligible.
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non-negligible
What do you believe the percentage is of middle-class people who are entrepreneurs? Anything data whatsoever to contradict my description of “mainly [not]”?
Necessary, according to you, but also basically valueless, since you’re opposed to the minimum wage and any sort of regulations that would protect workers. After all, according to you, the free market fixes everything in spite of historical indications to the contrary. And governments should only pay for an “outward directed military”, which can’t be anything but beneficial–again in spite of history.
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If you’re going to pretend to quote or paraphrase me (“according to you”), have the respect not to simply make stuff up and expect I won’t notice.
I don’t need to make stuff up. You’re the one who argued that an “externally focused military” would exist solely for a country’s benefit. When I said that could be used in a hostile manner you replied sarcastically that my “psychologist” would find that interesting without offering any real defense of your position.
If you want to benefit from your comment having been deleted you’re free to rewrite your own history as well as everyone else’s.
As for the rest, are you now saying you are in favor of a minimum wage? That would contradict extant statements you’ve made.
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You know what they say about pig-wrasslin’…
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Here is the Forbes article I pulled the above stats from: 16 Surprising Statistics About Small Businesses
Googling “small business owner averages salary” I get a US average of $68k among the only 50% of them who actually pay themselves a regular salary. Over 25% of people employed by people making an average of $68k and another 25% are employed by people who don’t even have a salary. Do you have any statistics to support your description of “mainly not”?
Or was your claim merely that fewer than half (i.e. mainly not) of middle class people employ other people. Because if that was your point I’ll happily concede it. But given that it could simultaneously be true that the middle class is mainly composed of non-job-creators and that job creators are mainly composed of middle class people. I think that’s a very weak basis on which to say:
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Please provide evidence that I said or argued that ‘an “externally focused military” would exist solely for a country’s benefit’.
are you now saying you are in favor of a minimum wage
No, I am not. Why would you think that?
Or was your claim merely that fewer than half (i.e. mainly not) of middle class people employ other people.
Of course.
it could simultaneously be true that the middle class is mainly composed of non-job-creators and that job creators are mainly composed of middle class people.
That is possible.
I think that’s a very weak basis on which to say: “job creators” we ain’t
No, you’re getting the subsets the wrong way around. If those two propositions were simultaneously true, one couldn’t say “job creators aren’t mostly middle class”. But one could certainly say “middle class mostly are not job creators”. Which is what I said.
You know, “Most dogs are not brown. Most brown things are dogs.” supports - nay, repeats - “most dogs are not brown”.
Okay, I thought, “job creators we ain’t” implied that middle class people were not largely responsible for the creation of jobs in the country. I guess you didn’t mean it to.
Like I said, I’ll happily concede that the majority of middle class people are not employers. Though I guess I don’t know what the point in raising such an obvious fact is.
After all, @Kimmo didn’t say that most middle class people create jobs, but rather said that the real job creators are the middle class, and you were apparently trying to contradict him. Since the majority of job creators are middle class, your point doesn’t contradict that at all.
Consider a parallel argument
@Kimmo: The real job creators are the middle class humans
You: No, most middle class people humans aren’t job creators
It’s true, it also doesn’t contradict anything. I had assumed from context you meant something untrue but relevant. Maybe that was uncharitable, but I really can’t tell.
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Are you denying that when I said a military could be used for hostile actions, to control people in another country, that you sarcastically replied that my “psychologist” would find that “very interesting”?
The comments have been removed but I’m curious to test your integrity. Or perhaps just your memory.
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Your exact quote was
you’re saying it’s fine for government to aim to control lives in other countries as long as it doesn’t do it here.
which is (as usual) something I did not say. Nor would it be true: indeed normal armies do not aim to control lives in other countries. Now you’re making a different claim
could be used for hostile actions …
which is true, but so what. It’s off topic from my claim, which already was qualified with “war place/time exempted of course”.
tl;dr: To compare governmental control inside a nation with one’s army’s putative “control” of other nations is ridiculous.
If a military force doesn’t exist to exert control over other nations then what is its purpose? Solely to protect? If so then I think we’ve found an area of government spending that can be cut significantly.
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The middle class is not a “job creator” by virtue of its purchasing power. It’s that simple.
[quote=“Humbabella, post:174, topic:80888”]
My four-year-old wanted her other parent to get her some milk. I offered to get it and she refused. She wanted the other parent to get it. I told her that if she wanted to drink milk she could have milk, but if what she really wanted was to boss us around then we weren’t interested. I know it’s a very recent thing in human history, but we have enough milk now. It’s the desire to command others that is getting us into trouble.[/quote]
This is probably the wisest anecdote I’ve ever read on the internet.
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So, rather than having a point based on some interesting fact about reality (say, how many jobs the middle class creates) you have a point based on a definition of a term (that is a “job creator” is a person who hires another person, thereby creating a job).
If you had responded to @Kimmo and said, “Well, I think the definition of the term ‘job creator’ ought to be ‘a person who created one or more jobs by hiring another person’” then I guess we could debate the merits of that definition. If we knew that you weren’t disagreeing with the substance of what was said, but rather the word choice, then we probably could have avoided the whole discussion. Especially since I would wager you think the term has a single correct definition and so we’d have nothing to discuss.
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