I will never, ever live in a house governed by a homeowner’s association. Fuck people telling me what to do with my property. The government’s more than enough to protect public safety. Any rules beyond public safety with regards to my property are tyrannical. And anyone who comes into my minefield, er, I mean my back yard, uninvited deserves whatever injury they receive.
In this case the property wasn’t owned by the gentleman building the thing, it’s a rental and the landlord/housing association is protesting. Nobody has exactly made claims about risks to intruders besides the guy who was responding to a complaint about building without a building permit, the housing association mentioned insurance which the tenant framed dishonestly. Before building codes and building permits enough people died from shoddily constructed projects that the government stepped in to regulate. I can’t complain too loudly about it.
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Yep. To clarify: a UK ‘Housing Association’ isn’t a US ‘Homeowners’ Association’; the former is a provider of rental accommodation (some specialise in sheltered accommodation for the elderly, some offer part buy/part rent deals, most just offer rental), so pretty much by definition, he’s renting. The Housing Association is the property owner, so will understandably be concerned about liability.
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Totally aside from this being a rental and therefore most of the arguments about it being bogus:
I don’t like HOAs primarily because they often support racism and discrimination, and also because they are often filled with self-important busy bodies who want to control every aspect of everyone else’s life.
However, I don’t have a problem the general idea that if you live in an average urban or suburban house, condo, or apartment you are part of a society, and your neighbors have to see, smell, and hear what you do on “your” property. If you want to live close to other people everyone needs to be willing to compromise and consider how their actions affect their neighbors. If you want to do whatever the fuck you want, go live in the country.
I don’t really know what is involved in running a commercial fish breeding facility (or even if that is what this guy is doing), but I assume it involves a dramatically higher density of fish than in a typical decorative “water feature”, proportionally more food, potential for considerable noise, smell, chemicals, and increased traffic.
So I don’t really know if “no giant fish ponds” is a reasonable or unreasonable restriction, but I am certainly not willing to commit to taking this guys side based on what I have read. Again, it is all moot in this case because the guy is renting and the landlord has made this rule.
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My guess is that the housing association is also worried about being stuck with of the costs of removing the structure once the guy moves from the property.
The people who would foot the bill are effectively the other residents. Some of whom are likely to have little or no income.
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If you are poor you don’t really have much of a choice. The housing associations own a lot of the former council houses that Maggie sold off.
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Thus his cunning plan of an army of carp with lasers on their heads was thwarted! Curse you Housing Association Person!
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The UK Housing Associations are considerably different from US Home Owner’s Associations. HOAs in the US are basically neighborhood fiefdoms that force everyone into conforming little boxes. They’re about attracting “the right kind of people” to the neighborhood, while discouraging “those people” from moving into the neighborhood, either with pernicious rules, land valuation, and sometimes vandalism. They tend to be governed by “covenants”.
Housing Associations in the UK, I am lead to believe, are more like a part of the government that deals in arranging and renting out housing to people. It’s more about housing and less about making sure you keep up with the Joneses or else they’ll vote to have your water cutoff.
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WOMP WOMP
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The legal doctrine you refer to is that of an “attractive nuisance”. Basically the premise that you are responsible for the dangerous junk on your property, and if it’s not properly secured – for example from visitors such as kids (who are not going to use good judgment) – you shouldn’t even have it. For example, pools, giant piles of sand or gravel, abandoned barns, and rusted out automobiles are dangerous nuisances bound to attract adventure-seeking kids.
No telling if that’s actually what the issue is here. The BBC details are scant. And it is England, so God only knows who has a stake and what the rules are.
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In theory, yes, although they are private companies who aren’t part of local or national government.
My experiences with Riverside Group in Carlisle were not good, to put it mildly. They refused to let me move to another property even when they were given police reports saying my life was in danger at where I was living at the time. Maybe other housing associations are better, but I’m not going to give them another chance if I can help it.
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The problem is that Sovereign Housing has given a stupid reason (“dangerous”) for him not to build this pond. The correct reason is “this is not your property, you may not build a giant brick structure on it” followed by “because we said so.”
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Thanks for letting us know. It seems this thread is assuming US HOAs are the same thing as UK Housing Associations. HOAs in the US don’t own any land at all. It’s a coalition of the homeowners themselves trying to govern the neighborhood so that all the houses look a certain way and are “within regulation”. They force you to trim your grass, and paint your house every X number of years, and tell you you can’t have more than X number of garbage cans on the curb, and that you’re always pulling down everyone else’s property values because you’ve not barked your garden and shit like that.
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This need far more emphasis here. This isn’t like an American HOA, this is a social housing landlord.
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So, it’s totally off-topic, but what stops you from buying a house and then telling the US HOA to eff off and doing what you want?
To stay on topic, I have zero sympathy for that guy. He’s just banking on the “easier to ask forgiveness than permission” rule.
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Then they’ll be mean, and call the cops on you all the time. And depending on how it’s setup, the HOA may own the Demark to the neighborhood for water, data, and power, so they’ll just not let you get hooked into the grid if you don’t sign the covenant.
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You don’t adhere to CC&Rs, you get fined. You don’t pay your fines, the HOA puts a lien on your property. Totally enforceable. If you buy a HOA property, be sure to ask about HOA lien because new homeowner is totally responsible for fines.
(Not a paying member of HOA, but someone who rented a condo from an owner.)
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I would not go that far. If he is actually a koi enthusiast, he may be less concerned about the pond having a “zen” look than he would be about maximizing the fish capacity,properly filtering and aerating the water, and keeping predators away. I have been pretty serious about koi for a couple of decades, and it is pretty easy to want to go from a few hundred gallons to a big purpose built pond. It looks to me like it is "in progress"
That being said, if he is a renter, this should be an issue between him and the owner, as well as any local codes and regulations. There is probably much more to this story.
The housing association is the owner. He’s renting it from them.
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Apparently, I’m a dickhead.
