Man who shot up "Draw Muhammad" event was urged to "tear up Texas" by undercover FBI agent


#1

Originally published at: http://boingboing.net/2016/08/09/man-who-shot-up-draw-muhamma.html


#2

So is this part of a Republican conspiracy to make us afraid of Muslim people or part of a Democratic conspiracy to trick us into enacting some kind of gun laws? Oh well, I guess social media will uncover the truth.


#3

Since when is this news? Since the 60’s (at least) word on the street says if there’s someone in the group urging violence, offering to provide weapons and explosives, then they’re an undercover fed.


#4

So has the Effa Bee Eye caught any bad ol’ TerrorMonsters where they weren’t directly involved in egging them on and/or central to the “plot”?


#5

Democratic. Obama is in charge. Everything is his fault. Including me wasting 10 Pokeballs on something I didn’t really want and having it run away. Thanks, jerk.


#6

Why not both . gif


#7

The bigger news is probably the fact that ‘terrorists’ actually exist, albeit in quantities substantially smaller than popularly alleged; and the FBI is still wasting time with this nonsense and has a…limited…track record of actually catching anyone they didn’t conspire with.

Their willingness to try to get mostly-legal-but-obnoxious groups to do something stupid enough that they could be squished is old news; but inventing additional supplies of an actual threat in order to score easy ‘wins’ is arguably a different arrangement.


#8

some guy told me to go eff myself the other day… had i done it, could i have blamed him?


#9

This kind of entrapment always suggests obvious defenses which I never hear of anyone using. If feds or cops put you up to something, can’t that count as complying with a “lawful order”? Police routinely tell people to do things that aren’t strictly legal - and they are still expected to comply. If a fed says that they need me to bring to them drugs or weapons, surely that is their own responsibility.

As usual, they seem determined to keep “personal responsibility for one’s actions” in a grey area.


#10

Only if you knew they were feds or cops when you followed the order and only if they had the authority to order you to do whatever you did.


#11

Naturally! That’s what the field strength meter was for.

But if they exceeded the authority of their position, surely it would be they who were culpable, and not I.


#12

This just shows how well the War on Terror is working. The FBI is actually having to go out and create new terrorists.


#13

Well, the FBI’s mandate prevents them from “stabilising” traditional places like Iran, Afghanistan, El Salvador, etc so they make do with Texas.


#14

ISIS is just outsourcing their radicalization program.


#15

they could have commissioned no better contractor


#16

Hey, Marinus. Here’s your firebomb, off you go!


#17

You could have thanked him.


#18

Nobody has the authority to order you to perform illegal acts. Since you reasonable people are expected to know that, they can’t disclaim responsibility for following such orders. That doesn’t mean the orderer is off the hook though. It’s not an either-or situation; there’s plenty of blame to go around.


#19

Sure, but when commanded to follow the “lawful orders” of a police officer, one is expected to obey them in the capacity of their office, not as individuals. There seems to be a lot of precedent of police forcing compliance for something not strictly legal. If they tell you to do something most people recognize that their life is on the line, they comply and then complain later once they aren’t at risk of being beaten or shot.

For example, controlled substances are illegal because the government says so. But they also make exceptions, such as for research and training. How transparent are these agencies, that I can tell whether or not their request is lawful? Since the DEA is responsible for both scheduling and enforcement, it does not seem farfetched that they might have the authority to request substances which are under their purview.

Like @enso said, I think they do this with the presumption that the entrapee is not aware of who they are and what they are doing. I am not convinced that such a defense would be successful, but I still think that it is interesting and would love to see it attempted. “There’s a fuckton of precedent of the feds bending laws for own secret reasons. I was just following the orders of the FBI. What choice did I have?”


#20

Sorry, the FBI is too busy trying to force backdoors into iOS to address this matter.

9/11! 9/11! 9/11!