Medical procedures priced in Iphones, for the benefit of noted dumbass Jason Chaffetz

[sftroop86]

I’m not sure why you are calling me a troll. I have not been hateful toward you or anyone else on this forum.
If Ryan (who I am not a fan of) is trying to prevent people from being able to get their survivor’s benefits from Social Security that is indeed a horrible thing. Please post a link that I can reference when communication with my congressional representatives regarding Ryan’s efforts to take away that benefit.

[Raoul]

Trolling comes in many forms - yes, you have not been hateful, but that is only of the tools in a troll’s arsenal.

Another is joining a forum specifically to comment, and then derailing that conversation - check
Also, playing the deliberate obfuscation game - “I’m just confused, I don’t understand…” - check

I hesitate to do your work for you (LMGTFY), but on the small chance that you are a genuine and also to add to the sum of knowledge on the forum:

Paul Ryan on survivor benefits - http://www.alternet.org/hot-news-views/paul-ryan-social-security-teenager
Paul Ryan wants to eliminate SS - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-altman/trump-and-ryan-agree-lets_b_9992656.html

There’s a special circle of hypocrite hell for Mr Ryan

[Raoul]

Unless you get (out of the blue) an infected wisdom tooth in your 50s. The dentists don’t want to touch it because they claim it’s a medical problem, but the medical insurance kicks it back to the dental. You have both insurance policies through work - that you pay for, but magically the procedure you need will cost more than $10,000 and is covered by neither.

The pain and swelling get some bad that you can’t eat solid food for three months (thanks for Soylent) which does have a nice side effect of weight loss but is generally not conducive to long life and health.

Finally you get tired of going to various doctors and dentists and paying out of pocket for X rays, visits, etc etc. You take your X rays and CAT scans, go to a foreign country and get the problem fixed in 90 minutes for $350 at a dental hospital in a med school. Not the $10,000+ hospital stay and surgery you were told in NYC.

[crashproof]

One iPhone will not buy one 5-pen box of Novolog, without insurance. Which, for me, was enough insulin for about a week and a half.

(But now I’m going to a much better doctor with a pharmacy concierge, who told me if a pharmacy ever tells me insulin is going to cost $500 I need to call her immediately and she will show up in a helicopter and beat the shit out of whoever is necessary to get me a reasonable price. Maybe not in those exact words. And right now I’m getting two 3-pen boxes of Humalog for a $25 copay, it lasts me 29 days, and it is functionally 100% identical to Novolog.)

[crashproof]

Okay, correcting myself… iPhones, sans contract, are a little pricier than I thought. One iPhone will buy one box of Novolog. Still, a year’s supply is about 25 iPhones.

[anon50609448]

@waetherman

The problem with dentistry is that there is nothing really insurable about it. For the most part, costs are pretty fixed for everyone (except those who don’t see a dentist); regular cleanings, the occasional filling, wisdom teeth removal, orthodontics… all fairly predicable and common enough that the costs for any given patient are probably pretty much the same. Medical insurance is based on the idea that four people in a thousand gets cancer, and it costs a million dollars to treat, so everyone will pay $50 a month just in case they get cancer (or whatever - math )

There is no profit in insuring a service that costs close to the same for everyone. There might be an awful lot of value in governments using public money to pay for it. In the US people inevitably tend to think a lot in terms of insurance and coverage and it kind of overshadows thinking about treatment and outcomes.

[Katryn]

Until you injure yourself…
Sports and recreational injury: the hidden cost of a healthy lifestyle

[waetherman]

Exactly my point.

[anon55609254]

@awfulhorrid

Too many people here are stuck in “I’ve got mine, so screw you” mindset.

It’s somehow ingrained in the American psyche; my father used to say this five decades ago. I think it’s part of the American “exceptionalism” and “individuality” bullshit we imagine pioneers and cowboys had and that we of course also have. “We are great! I are great! And if you aren’t great it’s your own damn fault, so screw you!” I don’t know how to fix it, but we sure could use a huge dose of humility in this country. And compassion. For such a supposedly severely religious country the lack of those two things is incredibly puzzling – but in a lot of cases, I think it feeds into it – “My God is great, therefore I am great, and if you’re not great it’s because God hates you for being [insert dubious reason here]. Amen. Hallelujah.”

@anon50609448

Research has tied gum disease to heart disease, but it’s unclear whether there is a causal relationship or if they both result from the same risk factors (smoking, high blood pressure, etc.).

People who have a heart transplant, an artificial valve, or some congenital heart problems are more likely to get infective endocarditis, a serious infection of the heart that is difficult or impossible to cure completely. Before seeing the dentist, such people are usually given prophylactic antibiotics, to prevent loose bacteria from a dental procedure from entering the bloodstream and infecting the heart. It seems reasonable to me that just having a bad case of gum disease can also increase the chance of carditis. But any kind of chronic infection like that is bad!

[anon50609448]

@anon55609254

But any kind of chronic infection like that is bad!

Yeah, I think that’s probably the big takeaway.

[anon26940528]

@Nonentity

Obama, while talking about people making close to the median income in the U.S., said that healthy people are not getting health care because they’re prioritizing other things more.

Chaffetz, answering a question specifically about low-income Americans, said that they should buy health care rather than buying a phone.

Isn’t it odd how people who thought Obama was the worst thing since Satan are now defending the actions of the current administration by arguing that Obama was exactly the same?

[Melizmatic]

Don’t be silly.

Obama was just the wrong color; everything he does and says is automatically wrong. But it’s totally ‘okay’ when an old rich White dude does and says things that are even worse.

[tlwest]

@Wanderfound

I feel obliged to note here that, in Australia and most other places with socialised medicine, you can buy superior medicine if you want to.

And to my mind, that is a tragedy. Inevitably when you have a two tier service, the middle class will be in the upper tier, and at that point there’s almost no political support to make the substantial sacrifices that keep the base tier at acceptable levels.

Also, and perhaps most importantly, a fundamental tenet (yes, an ideal, but ideals matter), is that as Canadian, we share our fates (at least where health-care is concerned) Yes, I’m fortunate enough that I’m likely paying for several people’s insurance, but from the poorest to the wealthiest, in the eyes of our society, our lives are equally valuable.

Providing universal health-care should not be provided because we’re charitably helping the “weak links”. That highlights our differences. Universal health-care should be one of the most meaningful ways to say that our common bonds are important enough to share perhaps the most important thing of all - life itself.

Again, this is all ideals and paper truths - but these things matter, and seep into our consciousness.

@nimelennar

But you can purchase better health care in Canada. It’s not restricted. My workplace pays for physiotherapy, and dentistry, and prescription drugs, and all sorts of things that Medicare doesn’t pay for. Medicare isn’t restricting the ability for people to pay for better health care; it’s just paying for the baseline care that keeps everyone reasonably healthy.

The practical options available to Canadians are for coverage of services not covered by our universal coverage. You can purchase things that are not considered part of our universal health-care. i.e. you cannot practically purchase better cancer drugs, experimental treatments, skipping waiting lists, etc.

This is important because it means that resources for covered services are not diverted to those paying extra money. Your dentistry coverage does not mean that my waiting time for an MRI is increased. Moreover, your being able to purchase extra services does not diminish your demand (and willingness to pay for) the health-care coverage that is available to all Canadians.

There is one exception to buying better care - you can travel to the US. And this is important - it acts as a vital safety valve to allow the very few who are willing to pay exceptional amounts to go elsewhere without gutting the most important aspect of the Canadian system - that every Canadian is considered equal in the eyes of the healthcare system.

Australia, without this safety valve, probably has to have two tier health-care.

@anon67050589

so those who want to distinguish themselves from the plebs with their government HMO options can lord it over them with all the extra options they get by being able to afford Cadillac coverage.

While I think the reality is rather more nuanced, I do think sentiments like this are why I don’t think America is culturally ready for universal coverage.

And again, let me make it clear, I consider many of the points I brought about “against” the Canadian system (“death-panels”, waiting lists, lack of freedom, denial of information, denial of access to state-of-art treatments) to be exactly its strengths. The fact that they are considered “weaknesses” that need to be defended against by so many here is exactly why I consider America unready for our system.

[anon67050589]

@tlwest

The fact that they are considered “weaknesses” that need to be defended against by so many here is exactly why I consider America unready for our system.

Can’t argue with that, sadly.