Did you even watch the video?
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No. You don’t get to define what a hijab means to women, and then tell me whether it is good or bad is up to me. Your opinion can not be stated as a fact. This is why I said it would be hard to get through to you.
Have you spoken to women who wear the hijab voluntarily? Have you ever heard a woman say it makes her feel like she has some freedom to operate not under the male gaze?
It doesn’t have to be defensible to you. You are not the arbiter in this case.
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I don’t think that fits your “God Hates Fags” t-shirt analogy very well.
A LGBTQ person seeing someone wearing that t-shirt could say that “that shirt is offensive to the LGBTQ community” and, as a member of that community, would have more standing to say that than the person wearing it (who would, assumedly, not be part of that community).
I think the only person who can say to a Muslim woman wearing a hijab that “this is directly disrespectful to Muslim women” is another Muslim woman. Or, replace all three occurrences of “Muslim women” with just “women” to the same effect.
I would have no problems, as a white dude, going up to another white guy wearing a Confederate flag T-shirt and saying, “Dude, your shirt is racist against black people.” I think it would be incredibly inappropriate for me to say the same thing to a black guy wearing the same shirt.
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I need to read more closely, when you’re spouting opinion as fact. Sorry. If you read such, you clearly didn’t get it. No, I didn’t read it, and you didn’t get it.
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And that is your opinion, which is fine. It is also your opinion that the hijab is a tool of oppression against all Muslim women. But it is not a fact, as one can see in the video (and in real life for those of us who have had one-on-one conversations with Muslim women).
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Okay. We all know how you’d raise your kids then. Sounds like you’ve made your point.
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What did Buddhists and Pastafarians ever do to you, upper deck your toilet? Evangelistic, organized religion has committed a lot of oppression, yeah. But Quakers formed the backbone of the abolitionist network, Quakers created open source tools like the circular saw, and the printing press was developed by a catholic.
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So, a woman wearing a hijab is the same as the westboro baptist assholes? Really? [quote=“codinghorror, post:85, topic:98496”]
The difference is that women are forced to bear the brunt of these decisions.
[/quote]
And, unless it’s a clear cut case of a woman being physically abused and in need of help, this has anything to do with you how?
I do think there is a place for these tricky conversations about gender, religion, and modesty, but I don’t think making broad sweeping generalizations about an entire faith is doing that. Especially considering how many women make this choice on their own, as opposed to being forced to do so.
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And even OUTSIDE communities of faith. We still seem to be having the “well, if that woman had made better choices, she wouldn’t have been raped” BS conversations… sometimes RIGHT HERE ON THIS VERY BBS!
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What about gender inequality that exists outside of religion?
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Reminder to thread participants: many who feel they’re still not yet educated on this topic are silently combing through this discussion for any new insight. If you find yourself writing in a combative tone, consider revising/rewriting your comments with this audience primarily in mind instead.
I say this selfishly because I’m among them.
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I see what you’re saying, but damn am I tired of having to hear men tell women how to be in this world. It makes me feel particular combative I’m afraid.
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Thank you @Snowlark
I will offer up a conversation that I had, not with a hijab wearing woman, but with a woman who chose to wear an American Sikh turban, another head covering taken for spiritual purposes.
The workshop was led by a very independent minded turban wearing woman as well.
For both these women, the decision to cover their hair was their own choice, chosen to express a spiritual side of themselves. I have seen pictures of them with and without head coverings.
Head coverings offer spiritual protection to the soul. They are seen in many religions.
Both the women spoke of resisting wearing a turban, but then of feeling that the time was right. One of them first wore the turban on her wedding day. She said she was surprised at how much she liked it, how much it felt like “her.” I have seen her wedding photos and she looks radiant on that day.
The other woman was a long time American Sikh who had been close personally to Yogi Bhajan (the founder of the 3HO). Throughout her many years in the organization, she had never adopted the head wear. However, late in Yogi Bhajan’s life he asked her to consider taking it on, out of concern for her soul. I think she wore it as a tribute to, and as a sign of devotion to, his teachings, which was personally important to her.
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Fixed that for you. 
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Better, somebody should write an FAQ or authoritative article that we can link to when a situation occurs. I am so, very tired of explaining issues to them as if they had the intelligence of Donald Trump. And I think my fellow posters are, as well.
The longer a thread drags on, the probability of not fucking using profanity reached zero. There are a lot of dumb goobers out there; please accept my apology of offending you if you are not the person I am addressing.
Filed to: tone policing
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Again, what did Pastafarians do to you? What about Quakers? Buddhists? Shintoists? Neo-Pagans?
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To my surprise, I started to get some spiritual insights. Covering my head made me think more deeply about which other bits of my body were covered. The first time I went into town with wrapped hair, I also wore a longish skirt and was generally a bit more ‘modest’ than usual. I was taken by surprise. I thought I would have felt self-conscious and dowdy. Instead, I felt empowered and liberated.
A number felt empowered by covering their heads. Andrea Grinberg, an Orthodox Jew who has become a kind of head-wrapping guru, said in one YouTube video that donning a headscarf had surprising effects. ‘I wanted to reveal my soul,’ she shares.
‘I wanted to reveal my warmth and my love and be connected to people, instead of them looking at something external…I wanted to be an attractive person for who I am on the inside. I cover in order to be who I truly am.’
Author Karen Armstrong, a former nun, echoed Grinberg’s sentiment in a recent interview with The Guardian: ‘I myself was veiled for seven years [when she was a nun]. It was liberating in some ways. I never had to fuss about my hair or make-up or all the other trivial things with which women in the west fill their heads.’
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You feel that gives you the right to tell women what they should and should not do with their body?
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But if they choose a religion, you get to tell them their being oppressed for wearing a head covering?
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Silly Mindy! If they just listen to logic they’ll see that they need no religion and thus no oppressive clothing! Obvy!
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