Montreal cop invents new law on the spot to ticket carpooling mom

If the carpool lane’s purpose is to reduce the amount of cars on the road his rule actually makes a little sense. (only a little)

It will only help to reduce the amount of cars on the road if the alternative to carpooling would be driving separately. So you need to get everyone to prove that they would have otherwise traveled in separate cars. Dropping someone off somewhere wouldn’t qualify for that, taking a taxi with one passenger wouldn’t either and driving someone without a drivers license around would also not pass the test.

It does get a little fuzzy when you drop your own child off at school together with the neighbor kid, they both don’t have a license but if the neighbor drove her own kid the amount of cars would be doubled.

All in all, I think the 2 people (regardless of license status) rule seems the most simple, straightforward and actually enshrined in the law of the two choices :smiley:

edit: @Celandine_Crane worded it better then I did.


In my area, they are raising the occupancy for HOV lanes to 3+ people. Not sure what the overall effect on reducing traffic this is having but it is sure pissing most people off.


i mean, technically…

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HOV lanes should be abolished. All the studies I read show very little, if any, benefit to having the HOV lanes.

For example, from (a study of the SF Bay area) –
“The goals of the HOV system are to increase the people-moving capacity of the freeway system
by encouraging carpooling; reduce overall congestion; provide travel time savings to HOV users;
increase system efficiency; and decrease emissions.
The data analyzed here indicate that statewide these goals are not met…”


Addendum: the next time I visited Canada, I thought, hrm, I wonder if the border agent is going to mention my old unpaid parking ticket when they look me up on their computer? Nope. Not a mention.

Scene: US immigration desk at Toronto International Airport. (Canadians clear US immigration before we fly i order to avoid needless constitutional protections).

US immigration officer: have you ever appeared in court?

Me: No. Never.

US immigration officer: What about this time here where you pleaded not guilty to a parking ticket in Montreal 15 years ago?

Me: <Speechless. Seriously? Are they going to not let me in to the US for a parking ticket??!>

US immigration officer: < sadistic smile> OK. Go ahead, sir.

Obviously my mistake was to have entered a plea instead of just not paying it.

Addendum: I used to fly into the US a lot on business. I always hated the fact that I felt incredibly nervous every time I went through US immigration. So I would work hard at not being nervous. I read, years later, that one of the screening techniques that US Immigration officers use is to look for people without emotional affect. My guess is that this question was intended to produce an emotional reaction. It worked. Pure momentary panic.“OK. Go ahead, sir”.


I’m surprised they’d let you contest remotely. I suspect you could beat the ticket in the US but they’d require you to come to court.

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Now, now… no need to be a tool about it. :slight_smile:

But seriously, the story is important in that it tells us something about the universality of the cop mentality. Within the US or without, male or female, white or POC – cops generally don’t like being made to look foolish, demand respect they haven’t earned, and will often do whatever they can to make one’s day miserable in response. Go figure.


I contested a ticket like that in NYC once - what a waste of my time.

Parked on a block in East Village and there was construction at one end and the no parking sign was hidden behind construction equipment. Got a ticket, went to court and appealed it. “Judge” (they are not real judges) said my photos were not enough proof - I needed to take overlapping photos that spanned the entire block, both sides of the street.
So I went back and I did that - dozens of clear overlapping photos. Went back to court a week late and showed him the pics and he told me I could have just photoshopped them, ticket upheld, pay the fine (which is higher because I contested it).


“Signing” the ticket is just an acknowledgment that you received the ticket and that you’re agreeing to appear. You’re not admitting or waiving anything.


The cop might have a point, but the cop isn’t (1) a judge or (2) the Legislature.


Welcome to Westasia.

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Or there should be more HOV lanes. In an area with tremendous traffic congestion, like the Bay Area, having just one HOV lane isn’t going to cut it – people will (and do) carpool and/or buy HOV-compliant cars, and the HOV lane ends up just as congested … but with carpoolers or Priuses. Where the real effects are felt is stretches of road that require a toll but are free for HOV’s. Some people will pay the toll, but a lot won’t, but the HOV’s will always use that road.


This is Canada. In the States, sure, but in the GWN (great white north) that would be considered impolite. /s

So the Filth up in Canada are a lot like the Filth in the US. Just less shooty.

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Sorry for shooting you, eh?

No, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have been in the way of your gun like that, eh?

I’m going to call this a difference that makes a difference.

Though to be realistic Canadian cops certainly shoot fewer people, but just like in the US they shoot people with dark skin and/or people with mental illnesses. Middle class white women don’t get shot for traffic violations on either side of the border.


Wait, this is exactly the reason police agencies cite for not wanting to hire any cop with an IQ over 100. They don’t want too much creativity in interpreting the law. Could it be that this policy (conceived by those with normal intelligence) is somehow flawed?

Here’s the thing. The cop fucked up when they pulled over the lady in the car, because the passenger, no matter their age, counts as a person. So instead of gracefully doing the canadian thing and apologizing for a mistake, the cop doubled down, lied about the law to force compliance, and issued a ticket.
I would even hope that the cop faced some sort of disciplinary measure over this- I’ve got no patience for the misuse of authority.


Back in the day, in some states signing a traffic ticket entered a guilty plea. If you wanted to enter a plea of ‘not guilty’ you had to submit to arrest. (And you couldn’t get out of the fee for having your car impounded, even if you were acquitted. That was usually several times the fine.)

I think a real court (as opposed to the informal proceedings of a traffic court) eventually found that such a practice was an affront to the right of due process.


Right - if HOV lanes succeed spectacularly, then there will start to be adults who were on the fence on whether it made sense to get a license, who are tipped toward not getting one, because they anyway always carpool to work to take advantage of the HOV lanes…

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