“More people have been to Berlin than I have” — the strangeness of “Escher sentences"

While it’s true that you could roughly manhandle the sentence to mean “More people have been to Berlin than I have [people]” (i.e. than the total number of people I own), I think it’s worth noting that the sentence “More people have been to Berlin than me” sounds equally valid, and yet is equally illogical.

Ok… I guess you could twist that one to mean “…than have been to me,” but I think both that and the “…than I own” interpretation of the first sentence are missing something. The point isn’t that we can somehow wrangle a logical meaning out of them, it’s that that meaning isn’t what people hear when they read it.

When most people read “More people have been to Berlin than I have” or “…than me” they’ll say “yeah, 'cause I’ve never been to Berlin”. Or, if they live near there, they’ll say “that’s not true, I’ve been to Berlin more than most people.” And in both cases they’ll be understanding a version of the sentence that was not actually said.

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I feel more like I do now than when I got here.

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"Oh, the humanity!’

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I got a feelin Steven Wright is about to enter the chat…

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I think the article’s explanation of what’s wrong with the sentence is itself wrong, but it’s still true that the sentence is wrong for other reasons–for example, I’m pretty sure that “More people have been to Berlin than the three of us have” would also be grammatically wrong despite the fact that the second clause now refers to a set of individuals.

Here are a couple sentences that I think make sense: “Some people have more pets than I have”, and “Most people have more pets than the three of us have”

Here are a couple superficially similar sounding ones that don’t I think don’t make sense: “More people have pets than I have”, and “More people have pets than the three of us have”

If my intuition is right that the last two are ungrammatical, it must have something to do with the placement of “more” in “people have more pets” vs. “more people have pets” and how they each fit with “than I/we have”, but I don’t know what the specific rule of grammar would be.

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Bravo that the word remarkable was put in single quotes.

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I think that a better example of a correct sentence would be “More people have been to Berlin than tigers have.” The point is that the sets are mutually exclusive and comparable.

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Good point, that’s kind of a different use of “have” than in my examples–your sentence could be expanded as “More people have been to Berlin than tigers have [been to Berlin]”, whereas my sentence “Some people have more pets than I have” would be expanded as something like “Some people have more pets than [the number of pets that] I have”.

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Dunkel war’s, der Mond schien helle,
Schneebedeckt die grüne Flur,
Als ein Auto blitzesschnelle
Langsam um die Ecke fuhr.

Drinnen saßen stehend Leute
Schweigend ins Gespräch vertieft,
Als ein totgeschossner Hase
Auf der Sandbank Schlittschuh lief.

Und der Wagen fuhr im Trabe
Rückwärts einen Berg hinauf.
Droben zog ein alter Rabe
Grade eine Turmuhr auf.

Ringsumher herrscht tiefes Schweigen
Und mit fürchterlichem Krach
Spielen in des Grases Zweigen
Zwei Kamele lautlos Schach.

Und auf einer roten Bank,
Die blau angestrichen war
Saß ein blondgelockter Jüngling
Mit kohlrabenschwarzem Haar.

Neben ihm 'ne alte Schachtel,
Zählte kaum erst sechzehn Jahr,
Und sie aß ein Butterbrot,
Das mit Schmalz bestrichen war.

Oben auf dem Apfelbaume,
Der sehr süße Birnen trug,
Hing des Frühlings letzte Pflaume
Und an Nüssen noch genug.

Von der regennassen Straße
Wirbelte der Staub empor.
Und ein Junge bei der Hitze
Mächtig an den Ohren fror.

Beide Hände in den Taschen
Hielt er sich die Augen zu.
Denn er konnte nicht ertragen,
Wie nach Veilchen roch die Kuh.

Und zwei Fische liefen munter
Durch das blaue Kornfeld hin.
Endlich ging die Sonne unter
Und der graue Tag erschien.

Dies Gedicht schrieb Wolfgang Goethe
Abends in der Morgenröte,
Als er auf dem Nachttopf saß
Und seine Morgenzeitung las.

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Dang it you’re right. But it needs to end with “… said the corpulent Landgraf as he crammed snuff into his left nostril.”

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I used to be indecisive but now I’m not so sure.

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In other words, the interpretation is that the speaker meant to say that they were not the only one to have visited Berlin? The other colloquial usage is as a complaint that others have been to Berlin, but not the speaker. It all depends on intonation.

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Ich bin ein Berliner

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Prisencolinensinainciusol

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people so often report that they sound acceptable

…because they never had a single even halfway decent English teacher during their entire school careers.

Ausgezeichnet! Vielen Dank!

Okay, now we are moving out of grammar and in to kidnapper territory.

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Reminds me of:

“I feel more like I do now than I did when I first got here”

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Plus ça change…