Originally published at: Santos survives expulsion vote
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The exchange part seems less important than the first part of this statement - about due process:
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I think this is about due process. Until the guy is convicted, all we can do is politely ask him to step down. We don’t want a MAGA controlled House expelling anyone for “reasons” like MTG tried to do
ETA
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That’s probably right, but the Democrats may also be calculating that Santos is more useful to them just lying there steaming on the floor of the House.
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I agree with @PsiPhiGrrrl and @1000YearBan, this is about respecting the process and avoiding the precedence EmptyG tried to set.
I found this bit from an NPR article interesting:
The only Democratic lawmaker to speak during the debate was Rep. Dan Goldman. He said Santos should have been expelled in May when Democrats brought an expulsion resolution, and the only reason the New York Republicans were leading the effort now was because Santos “hangs like an albatross around the necks of every single Republican from New York.”
NY Republicans want him out now because they know he’s guilty as hell, and he’s going to be used to bludgeon them during the election. They had their chance right after he was elected to expel him, but cried about “due process.” Now that “due process” is showing he is so much worse than anyone’s worst nightmares, they want to dump him before the reports are released to try to sweep it under the rug.
Don’t let them. Show the country what a rotted, corrupt party they’ve become. It won’t matter to their fascists-of-all-stripes base, but there are still decent people out there who will turn away from them for such egregious shit. They’re only hanging on because of extreme gerrymandering, and even that is beginning to fail them.
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Jamie Raskin:
Transcript
I’m a Constitution guy. The House has expelled five people in our history, three for joining the Confederacy as traitors to the Union and two after they were convicted of criminal offenses. Santos has not been criminally convicted yet of the offenses cited in the Resolution nor has he been found guilty of ethics offenses in the House internal process. This would be a terrible precedent to set, expelling people who have not been convicted of a crime and without internal due process. If and when Santos is convicted of these serious criminal offenses or ethics charges, I will certainly vote to expel. Until then, it’s a very risky road to go down and we have to stick by due process and the rule of law, as obvious as the eventual result seems. I can think of four or five Democratic Members the Republicans would like to expel without a conviction or adverse ethics findings. We can’t abandon due process and the rule of law in the House of Representatives.
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Thank you to Mr Beschizza and the commenters here in particular for this specific topic; because all my other (haphazard?) efforts to get a clue on “WTF did 30 Democrats just vote not to be rid of Santos!?” had so far failed. now i have some possible bits of reasoning to cling to.
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Same. I was rageful until the cooler heads here pointed out the very good reason the vote panned out as it did. Now I’m perplexed how only 30 dems voted that way.
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It is a club…and yes, both sides do it. Bob Menedez has been dirty as F for decades, having done far, far worse than this charlatan, and so far only one Senator (Sen. Cool-as-Fuck, er, Fetterman) has had the stones to call for his expulsion.
We’ll just have to wait for the voters of NY-3 and NJ to decide to do the right thing and remove them, because their trials will certainly NOT be over before the '24 election.
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In most political systems internal party discipline would have put him outside parliamentary politics at this stage to protect themselves. I guess the US republicans can’t start disciplining people for being liars, cheats, rapists, child abusers, promoting hate crimes, or any of the other multitude of criminal or otherwise unethical and immoral behaviour which is simply SOP for GOP.
Or maybe it just looks that way from a long distance away?
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It looks that way close up too
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Of course the process for expelling a member of congress does not require a conviction. It has a lower threshold for evidence than a criminal trial by design.
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Almost as low as the threshold to become a congresscritter.
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Yoinked from @anon59592690 - thanks!
Yes, I’ve read and understood the reasons why. Still wanted to react this way.
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Jamie Raskin: “yet.”
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My thought exactly. Make sure the GOP gets to spend a full two years lying in the bed they made.
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Also part of the calculations here are that Santos would likely offer to resign as part of a plea bargain.
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That still doesn’t make sense as a motive for the Democrats though. Why would they want Santos to keep the prospect of his resignation as a bargaining chip when they could toss him out on his ass and let him face the full brunt of the law for his crimes?
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I think the calculus is that the GOP will do the same to one of them in the future, which is likely true. Look at what they’re trying to do with Hunter Biden’s legal troubles. As long as the GOP is still in thrall to MAGA, that’s going to continue to be true.
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