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there is no way I canāt prove that nobody in this thread isnāt one of nate silverās sockpuppets
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hahahaha!
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If you want a decent third party candidate as a protest vote, thereās Jill Stein. If you want a hilarious candidate as a protest vote, thereās John McAfee, or, if you canāt stomach him, Vermin Supreme. Itās still worth going out and voting, because if everyone who was discouraged and didnāt vote went to the polls and voiced their displeasure by voting for John āI think this drug-addled lunatic, halfway through a month-long bath salt binge, is better than your status quo bullshitā McAfee, it would still drive a lot of positive change.
Personally, I remember how stunningly obvious it was that we were being lied to, and how obvious it was that that war was going to be a humanitarian disaster, before the second Iraq war, and there was never any chance, as long as I live, that I would vote for someone who supported it for national office, but I still go out and vote in every election. If you canāt stomach the major party candidates, and even going and voting for Jill Stein doesnāt appeal to you, you should go and vote for Vermin Supreme.
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Statisticians, amirite? We should ask some engineers who to vote for.
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Joun the DSA, organize, support candidates for local office ā¦ thereās lots to do.
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Ok, I confess. (Oops, wrong thread.) I am Nate Silver. Unless you are Nate Silver, in which case I am Nateās Deli.
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All yāall a bunch of Little Deluded Dupesā¦
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Well, in Sandersā defense, in his 17 years in Congress only 8 bills he introduced ever made it to the floor. Most of the 18 bills Hillary Clinton sponsored that made it to a floor vote were naming or commemorating things.
They were mostly voting on other peopleās bills. It isnāt really surprising that they both voted similarly since there arenāt that many progressives who manage to get bills to a floor vote.
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I tend to think if either of the two gets much done, or makes much out of what advantage can be gained this year, and leaves fertile ground for the next elections its Hillary over Bernie. Sheās spent her entire political career working in and around similar situations. And has maintained a pretty liberal record since she started running for office. Despite hysterical claims to the contrary. Apparently moderates are now rabid conservatives. And those who disagree with me on degree are no different than those who disagree with me on principal. Compromise is a dirty word, and practicality is out the window. Bernie on the other had has spent his years in congress largely as a left wing Ideologue. Sitting in a safe seat, making cautious moves within his own ideological block. And occasionally making (admittedly) cynical political moves like voting against gun control measures.
Bernieās plan is contingent on a massive reversal of all of the things I outlined, a reversal that border line canāt happen. And Iāve seen precious little out of him or any of his supporters on any of those subjects. Or what he might try to do when he inevitably gets stonewalled by an opposition that has an active interests in not just blocking him but entrenching systems that prevent anyone from making any kind of progress. So the question isnāt how Bernie makes good on his proposals. But what he does when he canāt. He seems actively antagonistic to those questions, and the base concept. As do most of his most vocal supporters. Iām sure he has plans, fall back positions. People he works with, other agendas to support. Iām fairly certain that what youād end up seeing out of Bernie looks an awful like what youād see out of Hillary in the end. But the disregard for the entire subject, concept, and unwillingness to discuss or address it or related issues doesnāt fill me with confidence.
But as I think I mentioned I dislike the nasty insistence that these people are opposites, with radically different ideology most of all. Theyāre from the same ideological block, have roughly similar records on votes and positions, have worked together on some of this shit, and even sit in the same age bracket and served in congress for roughly the same region. Which is why most of these discussions seem to come down to these sorts of vague āapproachā arguments and what are fundamentally disputes about personality.
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Ralph Nader ran for national office without representing a national movement.
Thereās more political work to do in our neighborhoods than voting for President on Tuesday every four years and then smiling at ourselves in the mirror the rest of the time.
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Giving the people what they actually want is the most radical idea of all
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This is a really lazy question, but there seem to be a few active minds hovering around so Iām going to indulge myself.
In Australia, if I vote for the Greens (and I do), particularly in a city electorate, thereās a chance theyāll get a seat. They have a lot of influence in the senate and theyāve had a reasonable impact on legislation here.
Is it really impossible for that to happen in the US? Are you really limited to just two parties that suck so hard they blow?
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Thatās because we pay for NATO instead. When you give all youāre money to the defense/prison/pharmaceutical-industrial complex, itās hard to support a middle-class. Not saying this is a good thing, but itās no mystery where the money goes, right into the tax shelters of the plutocrats.
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Donāt know if any Greens have a city position, but a certain socialist has one in Seattle.
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Well historically anyway for national office third parties when they get enough following have either made the closest major party shift the platform and absorb the new party or just die like the Whig party did when the Republican party came to power. It is more the first one that happens.
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I wonder if all the Clinton supporters know that they are not actually convincing me that she would be a better choice, with all their āBernie wonāt be able to do anythingā.
Who is the Impossibilist candidate for president?
I am only half joking. I was already feeling like the impossibilists were right before Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn came along and changed my mind. I donāt agree with them, both of them are politically to my right, but at least they are a step in the right direction. Hillary and the Blairites are just more of the same at best.
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Sound like a good idea.
I canāt though, I live in the UK, not that far from Bernieās brother Larry, who I voted for in the 2005 UK General Election.
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