New York City bill would outlaw discrimination against tattooed people

Ahem.

cemetery

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Ha, you’re missing or redirecting the point. It’s fine. Yes, death catches us all.

A black person will experience grief and hardship their entire life and still be equally mistreated by their younger black community once that black person becomes old. This is discrimination that happens in all communities with our older people. No sign needed for that to be true.

Playful counterpoint: Not sure why you’re being so against protection of the aged?

Now you’re missing or misconstruing my point. I am absolutely in favor of protection of the aged. I’m also in favor of protection for other groups, and I don’t think it is helpful to frame any one form of discrimination as “the last prejudice” that trumps all others.

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Cool. Yeah I prefaced that as being playful on my part. We’re both on the same side here. :slight_smile:

I am in favor of everyone being able to live a life without the pain of others. It’s a longer discussion, and developed over a lifetime of feeling like I am a responsible activist. (which I perceive you are as well based on your comments) but yeah people will often champion advocacy for themselves or their friends, or groups they want to impress. Or, if it’s topical, something that is in vogue.

But yes, age discrimination is rampant. Even on this forum.

It’s not easy for many young people to admit that they are prejudiced against simple things like older people, or losing their own youth. Which is so stupid, because youth is the most painful time of your life. The most insecure, unsupported, combative, etc. That’s youth. Age is grand: wisdom, confidence, intelligence, perspective. Etc. Youth is cosplay perspective by comparison, but it’s so damned certain of itself it doesn’t see it.

I meant “the last prejudice” not as the one that is worse than any prejudice, just as the last one we will all endure. No matter who you are, no matter what color or sex identity, your community will fade away from you as you become old. It’s the final prejudice you’ll receive.

GRIM BUT TRUE!

“ It is absolutely the last prejudice. No matter what you survive, it’s the last one you will encounter. One will find this out once they are old, particularly if they don’t have someone to be old with them.”

Well, while there are age prejudices here in the U.K., it’s certainly nowhere near as bad as it once was. When applying for a job, there is no requirement for an applicant to put their age or date of birth, for starters, and employers are banned by law from using age to disqualify an applicant from a job.
In my own case, I’ve been working at my current job within the motor industry for about four and a half years;
I’m now 68, retirement age is 65 here. I have no plans to retire any time soon, I’m physically capable of doing my job, and I’m pretty well paid, just had a 4% raise to sweeten things. Due to the 5 5 4 shift patterns I work, I get around 72 days off a year, plus twenty seven days holiday, what’s not to like?

Hi Adrian - Thanks - Those are awesome protections! Congrats to all you describe.

I’ve been a supervisor for a decade and have seen how often age discrimination is a completely unprotected classification during hiring of qualified applicants. A lifetime of experience is often perceived of as a negative. It’s a bias no one has to admit to having. Improvements here include bias-focused positives, like the inclusion of at least one BIPOC candidate in a pool, but other qualifiers like “at least one applicant also be born in the 20th century” - are not included. I see 20th century birthdates a worthy additional consideration for diversity in the future. Of course scrubbing such information, as you describe, is a good intentional gesture as well.

Your description of the UK gives me optimism, thank you.

Also, your knees fuckin’ hurt for no reason.

Apparently, tattoos of “hate speech” or “vulgarity”—as judged by the City Human Rights Commission—are exceptions to the rule.

It’s already taken into account.

Related: recently disneyland changed some old rules about their castmembers (employees) including allowing tattoos. I can confirm as a fan of the parks that I had previously seen tattoos peeking out from long sleeves trying to gif them and have recently seen them out in the open.
They used to have very strict rules forbidding facial hair (maybe ironic considering Walt had a mustache) tattoos etc. in the past certain rides only had certain genders working on them and that’s been opened up too. Going off on a tangent here, I know sometimes these sort of corporate changes are performative and there are a lot of ways workers could be treated better there but I do think it’s a positive baby step.

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You are hired! However…

It would still allow bosses to require their employees to cover a tattoo if it is a necessary condition for the job

Please keep this paper bag over your head during work hours.

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The phrase “the last prejudice” doesn’t mean all other prejudice has disappeared, it means that society hasn’t yet come around to the idea that fat-shaming is bad. Racism is portrayed as wrong, racists are seen as people with moral failings and, even though we are nowhere near a non-racist society, such a society is seen as a positive goal. Fat-shaming is still often played as a joke, as a way to encourage people to lose weight and as a sign of moral superiority.

You’re correct, of course, as to the current legal status quo.
But obviously the intention is to expand what is protected.

So, youre fine with Nazi, racist, MS-13 tattoos ?

Really? That’s what makes us “weak”? I’d go with: poverty, illiteracy, racism, lack of education and employment opportunity-- but ok.

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Speaking as an Undead American…

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No, that pretty much hit it. I’m also sorry, I didn’t mean to come across as snarling at you, personally. I absolutely hate fat shaming and fatphobia, both from personal experiences and from those of friends and partners. (Short example: my doctor always harped on losing weight as a ‘solution’ to my high HA1C numbers for my diabetes tests. I ended up losing a lot of weight due to taking up running [I lost weight because I was running, I did **not** take up running to lose weight.] When my weight was down but my HA1C was still high, suddenly she started taking it seriously. :angry: )

My reaction is really more over “‘X’ is the last acceptable prejudice …” simply because it gets applied to so many things. I’m not advocating for more prejudice, I’m just looking at all the others, some of which people are actually being killed over, and having a very bad reaction to “last acceptable.” I’m sorry to have come across as if I was dismissing your pain – very much not what I was trying to say!

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Ha! Had to upvote your reply. Good point, yes. I have no idea of my own personal end! I certainly have experienced prejudice for reasons completely bound to me being alive. Appreciate the humor of your reply, too. :slight_smile:

I suppose I’m speaking for friends I’ve had in their 80s/90s and seen how weird younger people act around them as they decline. Many old people claim to disappear from the eyes of the world. It’s not as attractive as other diversity activism. Younger people are always going to have a bigotry against older people, hence we’re all guaranteed to receive their derision if we succeed in not dying early.

That’s a total twisting of my statement. I’m saying: if a tattoo offensive - and yeah okay a Nazi symbol - then it is good for whomever wants that symbol to be offensive. Let life ignore them. We should all ignore someone. Or we can be offended by someone. That’s one thing ink can do. But it’s so widespread tattoos no longer have any power. It’s basically a fashion accessory now.

I am saying that if someone inks something onto their body that is a provocation, then allow it to be offensive and have that person’s life affected by the prejudice it welcomes onto them. It’s sometimes an intentional act to have people dislike you.

Where did I say I was fine with anything?

Again, you are misconstruing or changing my comment. But hell yeah, the left has no teeth. It’s made us incredibly weaker. Every symbol of the left is for sale with a sponsorship by Coke. The ‘we’ I am referring to is an underground of people, subculture folk. Punks or Subgenius persons. It used to be that you could easily separate yourself from the modern world with something as simple as a tattoo.

But now we’re so messed up into a monoculture that it’s very difficult to not have an algorithm copy and codify every creative choice you might try to make to have a subculture identity. That’s the weakness I’m talking about: Everything is accepted and absorbed. I mean that commercialism of all symbols have made people weak. We have no symbols.

Your list of things that make us weak is exactly why subcultures should be able to separate themselves visually from society. Right now that’s incredibly difficult. Yes, it’s very hard to offend people visually, and a tattoo used to do that nicely.

I’m Jewish and don’t appreciate Godwin statements like your Nazi jump, but sure: Let someone wear any damn racist thing on their body. But also let them wear a stupid Snoopy logo on their forehead. I’m just saying to not protect the decision through forced legislation. It weakens the whole point of inking Snoopy on your face and makes it a weaker idea.

I’m Jewish too, so cannot out-Jewish me. You made a blanket unqualified statement about it being great that tattoos cause offense. Your statement was Godwin-certified.

ok, so you are against the pro-tattoo bill. we have, at last, found consensus.

Laughs! Howdy, wasn’t sure we were competing?

Well we’re both writing on a computer on shabbat so we’re both poseurs. I’ll politely provide you don’t understand Godwin’s law. I just said I found something offensive because of my own identity, you provided Naziism as an analogy to make or win a point: Godwin's law - Wikipedia

And yes, I didn’t think we were disagreeing - but cheers on consensus!

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