NFL cheerleaders live miserable lives of silent degredation

boing
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It has nothing to do with being female. It has to do with making a conscious choice to do a horrible job in the face of other options. If you can work out, having physical beauty, and the physical talent to be a NFL cheerleader, you can do something else. It takes will, drive, and money to become one of those cheerleaders that if expended on anything else could have produced a nice boring unglamorous job that pays the bills. Any one of those women could be a gym teacher, a dance instructor, a personal trainer, or any of the many other jobs that are supremely qualified to have, to say nothing of more mundane things that they might also have talent in.

People can’t help asking, WHY!? Why are you putting up with this? Just stop! You wouldn’t be crazy for suspecting that what they crave is some sort of fame. You can be horrified at the conditions that someone has imposed, but it is pretty hard to not also be mortified that they are willing to take it to grasp at fame and fortune. A migrant farm worker can’t escape the conditions they are in, but these people can just walk away.

It isn’t shocking to anyone that people will take free labor under horrible conditions, which is why the focus has shifted to the people who are giving away the labor. It has nothing to do their gender. I have a male friend that works at a horrible non-profit that treats him like dirt, runs him ragged, and pays him shit. He is qualified to work elsewhere for better pay and better working conditions but choose not to. I think the non-profit is horrible, but I think he is an idiot for not running screaming when he clearly has the choice.

So, the conditions are bad and horrible to be sure, and the people imposing those conditions when it would be so trivial to fix them are wretched, but again, these are not migrant farm hands with no choice. These are people picking the worst option out of a pile of perfectly good alternatives and asking for more. There are literally billions of real victims in this world. It makes it hard for me to feel much sympathy for people chasing fame suffering indignations when they can simply walk away.

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Have you ever asked yourself why these degrading concepts of fame/success/glamour are sold to girls/women ? And why there are no parallels for boys/men ?

Your friend that works for the non-profit - were his measurements recorded, and was he warned when he appeared to have gained weight ? Was he told what sort of hairdo to have, and where to pay to have it done ? Was your friend flat out lied to about the position - and actively prevented from speaking with the others who had come before him, who could warn him ?

WTF with your victim Olympics? Why shouldn’t a major sports franchise pay these women for their work at a fair wage that does not treat them like they are subhuman ? What does the action of the multiple teams named expose about their attitude towards these workers, all of whom are women ?

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You are strawmanning. I never said that they shouldn’t be paid. They should be. The root of the problem isn’t bad pay though. The root of the problem is the kind of sexist society that turns out enough people willing to eat that shit when they have other options. The problem is the sexist society that wants those kind of people to exist, and that there are people willing to fill those roles. Society filling sexist roles with people eating shit to fill those rolls is a a fundamentally different problem than the plight of a migrant worker who eats shit because they have no choice. If you pay a migrant worker fairly you will fix their problem. If you pay these cheerleaders (and you should), you won’t fix the core of their problem.

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So the core of their problem is…

a) they are shiteaters ?
b) they have other options (what are the other professional options for cheerleaders ? How many professional cheerleading jobs are there except for professional sports teams ?)
c) society is sexist and they are mindless participants ?
d) they should have understood as children that cheerleading was an inherently degrading path ?

How would paying these women as the skilled professionals they are, and giving them reasonable terms in their contracts NOT fix their problem ?

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I could train you, from birth, to be a scribe. Or a [bowler][1]. Or a circus side-show. What opportunities would you have to professionally pursue what you had been trained to do since childhood?

The women are capable women who can choose not to cheer. They could just stop. Unlike many people in the world, they have really good options. These women are all totally capable of attaining at the very least a fair paying job. If it was worth paying for organizations would incentivize their return. Instead, they choose to pursue their hobby.

They can quit or strike, or take action. To argue otherwise is demeaning to the women who have decided to make this sacrifice for something they care for, love, or see as a pathway to a better life. They have made the same brave, difficult choice that some make in life to take a hard route, just like migrant Indian workers in Dubai who happen to be all male and have no rights and are essentially abused but have chosen that as it’s the best option they have*.

It’s capitalism. It’s true economic and personal freedom. It’s not sexist. It’s a choice.

And cheerleaders have much better options than the poor Indian migrant workers.

*Actually that’s a really complex situation but a complete tangent
[1]: The Rise and Fall of Professional Bowling - Priceonomics

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How many of these girls end up marrying rich dudes they meet while doing the cheerleading public relations stuff?

They’re women. Adult women. And they’re not all marrying rich guys.

“I’ve been dancing for 16 years, and I was paid more for dancing in college than I am as a pro cheerleader,” Lacy T. said in an interview. “I’m a stay-at-home mom, and every dollar out of my pocket is noticed.”

Also:
In contrast, Vinick said, the teams treat their male mascots as paid employees with benefits, which the Raiderettes don’t receive.

Yeah, no sexism here. Nothing to see, move on.

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Pfft. You can play football as a woman. Here are the San Diego Seductions playing a game, to give just one example:

San_Diego_Seduction_huddle.jpg1024×683 333 KB

I bet they get just as much respect and pay as any of their male counterparts.

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That’s very true, Liz. Before that, I believe the Kilgore Rangerettes were role models.

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a) Yes, the core of their problem is that they eat shit. If they stopped working as a cheerleader, they would stop having the problems associated with being a cheerleader.

b) Jesus, I already listed a pile of options. Hell, TFA has a cheerleader listing other options that should could take to be paid better doing something that isn’t degrading. I’ll list some again off of the top of my head what someone with the physical strength and coordination of a cheerleader can do, to say nothing of the drive that got them there above all the other competition that tried and failed: Gym teacher, dance instructor, personal trainer, and literally any other job that requires physical coordination, and that is assuming (wrongly) that they have absolutely no other skills, and that they don’t want to do something boring that pays the bills.

c) Yes, society is sexist and they are willing participants. That is the root cause of their problem. They can leave. The don’t want to. Something is holding them there, and it isn’t a rational examination of their options.

d) It would have been nice if society was setup such that they realized at an early age that this is a degrading path, but I wouldn’t be shocked to learn that for most of these women, the social pressure of where they grew up provided no such support. The girls that became women stepped out of childhood damaged. Where a self aware woman confident of her own worth would have taken one look at what a cheerleader gets, shit pay and degrading treatment and said “nope”, these women said “yes” and then fought other women for the right to hold those positions instead of wandering off to do something that isn’t degrading and pays better.

Paying them fairly (and like I said, they SHOULD be paid fairly) won’t fix whatever is motivating them to work very hard to not get paid. It will certainly fix their financial situation, but if that is all that needed fixing they could simply stop being cheerleaders and do something else. When a migrant worker doesn’t get paid, it isn’t because they are selecting a degrading and financially ruinous options over a pile of better options. It isn’t like they are selecting migrant farm work over being well payed doctors. They are rationally selecting the least bad option, and the least bad option is horrible. These are rational folks who if you improve their financial options will select the better option and their problem would be fixed. These cheerleaders already have that options and are not taking it. Financial pain is just the most obvious symptom of their much deeper and systemic problem. Again, I am all for fixing the symptoms, I am just pointing out that the problem would remain. The problem is the society that built these people. The damage to be undone is to make them understand that accepting this treatment when there other options isn’t worth it.

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hobbies and clubs like, say, playing football?

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You’re not wrong when your frame of comparison is with migrant workers. But the point is to compare them to other parts of the same machinery that they are involved in, namely the football players. Maybe they aren’t the main event, so sure, they don’t need billions, but that’s still an un-ignorably huge gap between two groups of people doing what looks like, from the point of view of a non-fan, like equally silly jobs. That gap is an injustice no matter which way you spin it, and it deserves to be decried and corrected. I would take either route of correcting the problem, honestly. Either all people in the entertainment industry are bumped down the the level where they are paid shittily and boss tells them how, what and for how long they can put stuff in their orifi, or none of them are.

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They should form a union. Surely America’s labour laws would protect them once they start the process.

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The labor laws might fail them, but I imagine they could run some pretty kick-ass rallies. And I realize this might could come off as a bewbs comment, but it’s really not meant as one. Their hard-practiced skills of synchronized chanting, organizing events, remaining diplomatic in the face of conflict, and generally putting on an effective and inspiring show should come in useful on the picket lines… If they did win their battle, it would be amazing to see them independently consulting and participating in rallies for other downtrodden seasonal workers.

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I know this feels uncomfortable. Ultimately the we all sacrifice our bodies, and that looks different between men and women. We all have much more trouble handling a woman sacrificing her body.

I would love it if you could put the ‘gender war’ goggles down for a minute. The underlying issues that create the cheerleader situation affects people of all genders, race, creed, sexual orientation. I beg you, look at this objectively.

This isn’t about being right or wrong. The only way to lose in this argument is to deny the opportunity of personal growth.

I know you’re smart enough to be a devil’s advocate to your own point.

I know an Olympic qualified skeleton rider. He pays 50,000$ a year to compete in his sport. Just like cheerleaders, male and female dancers, women’s sports teams, and bowlers not enough people want to pay to watch.

As long as they have the freedom to choose otherwise the ethics are very clean, completely fair, and appropriate. These are some of the most empowered women around. They have good alternatives and made a hard choice, like my skeleton rider.

Please, don’t take that away from them.

You can’t fix sexism with more sexism. The only sexism here is what you’re bringing along.
Decrying this as female oppression weakens our credibility when we try to address serious bastions of sexism, like the corporate world, or competitive high school cheer leading responsible for 66% of “catastrophic” sports-related injuries among women in the US. Competitive cheerleading organizations, run predominantly by men, have been more resistant than any other sporting organization to improve safety for their players.

Please, I beg of you. There is enough real sexism and nondiscriminating abuse to fight. Don’t insult these empowered women by casting them in that light.

It weakens our ability to address the real issues.

The real issue that may simply be: Are we truly OK with free market capitalism as a society?

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Actually, though I do think sexism and gender-based oppression are very much at play here, they didn’t factor explicitly in any of my comments. Your example of a sport that doesn’t attract enough attention is an interesting counter to an argument, but it’s not any argument I made. These women are in one of the public entertainment arenas that does make far more than enough money to fairly compensate all of its workers, but it fails to do so. Its definitely fair to compare them to other members of the same public spectacle, and find an injustice there. Football is a hobby for a lot of people, so is dancing. They are both part of the NFL performance, and are both worthy of at least not-heinously-inequitable treatment and pay.
There is also nothing ethical or fair about the “silence” parts of the contract. Making it a fire-able offense to talk about your pay, or the rules that govern your conduct is blatantly unethical anti-labor bullshit. I hear you there are some more universal, non-gender-specific labor issues here, but a lot of the more heinous elements of the contract (tampons usage, makeup requirements, no-underwear clauses, jiggle tests…) are unequivocally gender-based.

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Actually we are in complete agreement. Other than it wouldn’t hurt to remind some women around safe tampon use the rest of that is absolutely insane. Still, they CAN quit, but they choose not to. They choose to live that, so it must be worth it for them.

I’m still not happy about it, but I see that as an outcome of our general labour issues. If we fix that, then situations like this don’t happen. For anyone.

I worry a bit about the opposite: if we force teams to pay more for cheerleaders, perhaps more teams just dump them. That’s not good for them either. I’m really stumped with this situation and I think it would take many people working together to fix correctly.

I’m confused. I quoted you.

Disagree here. You could (and some teams have) dropped the cheerleaders, and people still pay to go. No one pays to go watch cheerleaders on their own. It’s just capitalism, for better or worse :slight_smile:

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If they aren’t going to pay a living wage, they’re ‘jobs’ that shouldn’t exist anyway. If they value cheerleaders, they should pay for them.

The NFL should insist on fair pay for cheerleaders, or no cheerleaders. And the cheerleaders themselves should organize and refuse to sign these demeaning contracts. Why doesn’t the International Cheer Union campaign on their behalf?

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They. Can. Quit.

You would rather deny them the opportunity to do something they want?

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I’m not disagreeing with you. I don’t know why they don’t, or why they don’t try to collectively bargain for a better deal.

I can only imagine that the benefits of being a cheerleader are something less tangible.

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EcholocateChoco is right on the money… except for the name! Stephen Fry In America is all on YouTube - I binged on it a month or so ago, along with several of his other documentaries.