If you work to ensure that all cops are punished for all crimes, you can accomplish your goal of punishing crimes specifically committed against black men. But if you insist that only persons aligned with a fundamentally racist viewpoint are ideologically pure enough to be your allies, you are an impediment to the rest of us that want real change for all people.
When somebody says “lets talk specifically about police misconduct and what should be done about it without reference to race for a minute” and you mock them or say you’re not willing to do that, you’re really just perpetuating racism. Change won’t happen if we insist on a completely race-based narrative at all times. There is a larger context, and we can fight racism by attacking the systemic problems it thrives on.
I can’t even be shocked. I expect this sort of outcome, no matter how outrageous it obviously is. (I’m pleasantly surprised when police are held accountable.) The question becomes: What will it take to reform police departments, nationwide? What do we need to do to actually create police forces that are a) properly trained, and b) are held accountable for their actions?
The police and DA, etc. obviously aren’t going to reform themselves, and they’re fairly insular, so simply putting some pressure on them is insufficient by itself. We need to get the larger power structures that oversee the police (from the local to the federal levels) heavily invested in reform, so how do we do that? Especially since a certain percentage of the population thinks that anyone the police kill “had it coming” and thus requires no reform. It’s never been so clear that the police need a complete overhaul, but I’m at a loss as to what specifically needs to happen to force that change.
There is no question that the officer was negligent and should have to pay the price for that but like the grand jury I don’t believe what he officer did meets the definition of homicide. There was clearly use of a prohibited technique and also excessive force; however based upon the video the chokehold does not actually look to be the primary cause of death. As anyone who has taken basic first aid knows someone who can say that they can’t breathe is not actually choking. Speech specifically rules out that the victim was “choked out” into unconsciousness by lack of blood flow since unconscious people don’t tend to speak. It secondarily rules out that the victim was being prevented from expelling or taking in air since speech requires that.
The victim had asthma and other medical conditions that ultimately seem to have caused his death. Whether a takedown without the chokehold would have triggered apnea and a myocardial infarction is a question which I cannot answer.
That being said the bigger problems I saw occurred long before the chokehold. There was no reason for the scuffle to have happened at all. Prior to that everything looked like it was being handled pretty well. Once it becomes a split-second decision-making life or death situation the chance that someone innocent will get hurt or die goes way up. That is the real issue we need to deal with. Which is why I completely support the use of body cameras on all officers that are responding to a call. Not because they provide good evidence after the fact but because they cause more civil behavior on the part of both the police and the people they are interacting with.
The jury was likely asked “Did he intend to kill him?” and other such questions. A: likely not. But is excessive force or using a chokehold something that could lead to charges? I would hope so.
Since we are going to reenter the victim blaming portion of our game, remember that Thug means N****r. It’s the newly adopted codeword for them to use now that they can’t use the n-word anymore…
Addressing racism and addressing police brutality are complementary goals. Outrage over this casse covers both - police can kill people on camera without charges and police do this to black mean more than other people. Change directed at stopping racism will reduce police violence and save the lives of non-black people and that would be great, Change directed at ending police brutality will alleviate at least the most oppressive part of police discrimination against black Americans, and that would be great too.
So if you actually care about police brutality, before starting a conversation about how we shouldn’t be talking about the racial aspect of this, stop to think about who that conversation is serving. It’s about as productive as coming in this thread to say, “Why are we focusing on the NYPD when police violence is a nationwide problem?” or “Why are we talking about chokeholds when most police violence happens with guns?”
Don’t misinterpret what I and others have said; personally, I’m not asking anyone to stop talking about racism, I’m asking people to stop mocking us and refusing to engage with our ideas unless we center our language around making special allowances for one race or another.
I agree! Addressing poverty and lack of opportunity are also complementary with both.
If I could figure that out, maybe there wouldn’t be a problem. Ask one of the people who go off the rails whenever someone else departs from their standard, scripted, echo chamber of outrage. Oh, wait, one just did, while I was typing this! Hi Marilove!
Another dead black boy, and from an officer who had already been deemd unfit for duty. And yet, here we are, another black boy dead. And yet we must consider this doesn’t have race implications, right? Totally.
“If I could figure that out, maybe there wouldn’t be a problem.” Wow. SO you claim people (black people) are getting special allowances and yet you can’t even name them? REALLY? And you want to be taken seriously?***
And “echo chamber of outrage.” Seriously? Are you really trying to be taken seriously, here? OH my god.
Also, nice attempt at singling me out. You’re clearly an angel!
****Are you aware that the “special allowances” shit is the same thing that really blatant bigots like to spew? Are you really looking to be on the same side of the fence as people like that? Talk about a deafening dog whistle! And yet, you claim to be an ally of the black men being murdered and facing no justice? Don’t be surprised if I tell you I’m suspicious of that claim.
I can acknowledge that cops killing people for no reason is a problem, and that mostly it’s a white cops killing black people problem. I won’t argue that.
I think that pulling race out of the discussion has the potential to widen the discussion and to bring more people onboard. When the question under discussion is ‘why do cops keep killing black people without cause?’, a certain part of the populace is going to respond ‘not my problem, not my discussion, moving on’.
It’s the wrong attitude to take, of course. We should all take notice of what’s happening, not be assholes and condemn unwarranted use of force by the police. But if you want more people to get with the program, you should probably frame it as everybody’s problem, not just as a problem for a particular minority.
Bottom line is police need to be held accountable. They need to stop escalating force with maximum speed. Cities with police-mounted cameras have seen improvement.
And why do you think taking race out of a problem that has EVERYTHING to do with race will do any good? You just think it’s the best way to go. Why? Because talk about the issues of obvious racism make you uncomfortable, as a white person (which I suspect you are, but you can correct me if I’m wrong)?
Bullocks.
We canNOT separate the discussion of race from a topic that has EVERYTHING to do with race. You can’t ignore a problem and hope it goes away. That’s not how it works.
Bottom line is police brutality affects people of color far more than anyone else. And that’s fucking important. Don’t white-wash this topic to make you and other white people feel more comfortable, which only allows the oppressors to pat themselves on the back and say, hey, aren’t we post-racial now?
Post-racial my ass.
We should have MORE frank discussions about race, not less!
But if you want more people to get with the program, you should probably frame it as everybody’s problem, not just as a problem for a particular minority.
Citation needed. Or is that just your personal view? “Shhh, stop making white people so uncomfortable!” Quote frankly, fuck that noise.
No one’s said that. What they’ve said is race is not the only thing involved.
Caring about police brutality in general (regardless of race) does not preclude caring about police brutality happening disproportionately more against black people. These things are not mutually exclusive.
@marilove, what exactly do you want to do about this, other than curse at people who don’t say things exactly the way that you like, with exactly the special special wording that makes your own opinions so overpoweringly important and crucial to the effort to fight racism?
I built a multiracial family. Not because I feel bad about being the race I am, but because the children that I love are not of my so-called race. What exactly are you going to do? Other than spew venom?
Edit: well, I waited a week, and what I got was gallons of vitriol. Haters gotta hate, builders gotta build…
Edit2: I note that my use of the word “built” was mocked by a racist hatemonger below - so I will explain that in my US state I had to spend two years taking classes on adoption and fostering, and spend a couple thousand dollars, in order to legally adopt an unprivileged child from the closest large city. I am fertile and have a biological child as well. I got the money back as federal and state tax credits after a year, and I have gotten far more in the last 15 years than the money or time could have bought me. I have smart, loving, capable, beautiful children; and I’m happy with my choices.
