Not even in the Real America™ of the Heartland and the south?
I just feel like posting this here:
Of course not… just because some assholes think they need to keep their wives in line by beating, doesn’t make it ever okay. I really object to it being included in that list.
Sheesh! The spelling errors are all over this thread! Fixed that free of charge.
Always nitpicking the grammar, you!
Beating the spouse thing. Sean Connery vs Johnny Depp (still not a great response). To really clarify this. It is never okay, but it used to not be socially condemned. That has changed.
No, you’re not nit picking. I appreciate your help.
I think the debunking is the issue. I’ll try to give you an example. I have an acquaintance that would not see themselves as bigoted. They would tell you it was wrong. But when certain things are acceptable they’re “spanish”. When it is unacceptable they are “Mexican”. (except dining establishments). I noticed this pretty quick and when I mentioned it. They balked, but started to explain about a certain “element”. I do not think I changed their mind, but their knee jerk reaction was “this is okay, this is not bigotry”. It is this subtle, learned trait that would probably never have been challenged in their town. I think they try not to say it, but I do not think they mention it to others. I think the now it is wrong, but inertia and social convention (I’m not around much) means there is no real reason to try and change. I mean if they were interviewing for a position do you think a spanish candidate would receive as much consideration. They probably would not even notice.
It is frustrating.
The question is do we give these bigoted ideas that you discuss here a larger platform, which is the topic under discussion. As you note, you called out your friend (presumably in as friendly a manner as you could), and they just doubled down on it.
that’s the problem in that it’s not a logical set of beliefs. The idea of disliking or fearing someone due to their race or ethnicity is inherently illogical, yeah? But it’s irrelevant to the people who believe in it, because so much of their identity is bound up in their own conceptualization of themselves as a racialized human being - that “white” has some inherent meaning and value to them. Letting that go would mean letting go of that sense of value. Unfortunately, there is no easy answer on how to deprogram white people from those views. They have to attach their sense of value to something else.
Which is often all that many of these bigots have left (thanks to 40 years of Reaganist and Thatcherist policies that they still praise to the heavens). That’s how rock bottom they’re at, assigning value to something that has none except as a construct that continues to be maintained by cynical conservative grifters.
Liberals and progressives have spent those same 40 years offering ways out of their predicament, but under various titles the Know-Nothing 27% has only dug in its heels as it waits for the Second Coming or to win big at the rigged lottery known as the modern American economy. Lifelong suckers never learn, and the last thing they need to see is reputable institutions lending their platforms to right-wing populists, fascists, and racists.
It’s like throwing gasoline on a dumpster fire.
I think it might push it to the forefront, but it’s hardly new in American society, of course… Wages of Whiteness, as David Roediger said. I do think you’re right that it’s keener than ever and more up front in society than it has been since the end of the classical civil rights movement.
I understand the separate words you use, and some of the simpler sentences. But I’m having trouble understanding complete paragraphs in many of your posts.
But count me among those thinking that Bannon is obviously a worthless shit, because his ideas would really, really hurt lots of people. Change his last name to Banned.
Sorry. My responses have been hurried. I hope it has not been too draining.
I prefer not to let things get so disastrously far that liberals or progressives have to use those platforms, but in the service of clean-up and setting examples for future genocidal maniacs they’re definitely effective.
heh. Yeah, let’s have a conversation about what Steve Bannon deserves. Hmmm …
because he’s a racist, sexist scumbag.
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