Most of the examples I found were for women, yes.
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Well, Gucci do call it an “Indy Turban”. I don’t think they’re referring to the Greatest Spectacle in Racing™. So, while turban use is widespread, ancient, and probably not in and of itself offensive, this particular marketing product is at the very least problematic.
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This whole dumpster fire smells to me like burning money. Generally I enjoy and approve of cultural appropriation, world music, and other culture jams.
Either it was an “all news is good news” stunt to make Gucci seem more hip and rebellious, turned into one, or was just a ridiculously overpriced hat that that nobody would have ever noticed except a few suckers. In this case there are no contributions to cultural variety or tolerance, only dollars for investors at the expense of pissed off people.
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I’m chewing on this one.
The “fashion piece” is junk, and expensive tat. But in a mutually encompassing society, I believe we all must accept others’ foibles patiently at worst, and best - just let them go.
Having a go at Gucci for appropriation, yeah, that’s a good thing. But I would be saddened if someone had a go at someone wearing this fakery unmockingly. It is aesthetically interesting, and turbans are allowed in any colour. It’s “new”.
Not a position of “just suck it up”, more that in this crowded hustle and bustle that we inhabit, we’re going to encounter little things that might upset us, which might engender pebbles rolling down mountains and creating landslides. Better to think “that looks silly” and carry on, then to become angry at for instance a pop star wearing a t shirt with the cross on it.
Had a quick read of Sikhism and I liked this bit a lot:
DOES SIKHISM TRY TO CONVERT OTHERS?
No. Sikhism forbids proselytization or forced conversions. Sikhism believes that there are many paths to achieving attunement with the Divine. However, Sikhism welcomes those interested in learning about the religion. Thus, people might learn about Sikh faith and then even be initiated as Sikhs. There are Chinese Sikhs, African Sikhs etc. However, once someone is initiated as a Sikh, she or he must follow the Sikh path to the best of her or his ability.
The bit about the Divine is mystery floating faith creatures, but the attitude expressed here is generally cool.
Remember this:
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So this:
With I would like special emphasis on this, as friends of mine who’ve been through chemo adopted them and with nary a word from anyone:
Assault Gucci and Nordstrom for profiteering and exploting cultural assets, great and good, but not the customers (idiots paying $$$ for this). Don’t take religious iconography seriously - it’s all in the faith.
I think the more relevant point is that it is the wearing of a turban that is recommended for religiously observant Sikhs.
There are various styles of turban which Sikhs wear but so far as I know (which admittedly is only what I’ve gleaned from RE back in school and rubbing along in a society which has a fairly large and visible Sikh community) there is no requirement regarding specific styles or any religious reason why non-Sikhs should not wear any of those styles.
As I understand it, the reason Sikhs wear turbans is explained partly because it was part of the usual clothing of the posh classes of the era and requiring all Sikhs to wear a turban was part of emphasising the classless/casteless stance in Sikhism along with the naming conventions of Singh or Kaur.
I can certainly understand a feeling of (justified) annoyance at a fashion house deciding to take what you consider to be ‘your’ defining characteristic and making it mainstream but really it’s no different to people getting irate about the mainstreaming of punk fashions or grunge or goth or whatever.
The identifier remains intact even if others are wearing it too.
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I think the appropriate response here is to “ask an expert”.
The girl was walked to school by her mom. I tried several times to talk to her (the mom) and never got a response. I don’t think she was allowed to talk to men by herself.
I find that lots of religions have something nice at their core, but that the centuries add lots of ‘baroque filigrees’ that get treated as more important than the original core beliefs (what would Christ make of communion wafers or the veneration of the object used to kill him?) The original idea of the turban was to bring equality to all men, an admirable ideal, but then it became required for men of the faith to wear it; superstition supplants spirituality.
" I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes , and not rather a new wearer of clothes." --Throeau
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You know, I may actually agree with you on this. The problem is I don’t know enough about the Sikh turban to know is there one style or many? Just in my google results, it looks to me like there is more than one style, though this Gucci style does emulate the more common version I am seeing.
So when it comes to actual traditional religious regalia, whether they be priest collars, monk robes, a Kippah, the Hasidic shreimel, I can see why it would irk the faithful. But at the same time, there are certain religious regalia that has it use outside of the just the faithful. The broad brimmed Amish hats aren’t common out side of the communities, but I’ve seen farmers wear them. Same with the bonnets the women wear. Some Orthodox Jews wear a hat that is a just a fedora. And of course you don’t have to believe in Jesus to wear a Christian cross. And outside of that, you have the whole fact that we openly mock religion in many forms, especially when it comes to things like priests, nuns, and monks.
Soooo - yeah, if it is a copy of the Sikh turban, I can see why it would ruffle feathers. But at the same time I’ve seen Nick Cannon wear very similar if not actual Sikh turbans and haven’t heard a word about it. If they were to tweak the design to look less like a specific religious turban then that would be a compromise.
As for any other concerns, I say wear what you want. People want everyone to celebrate and embrace diversity, and yet sometimes when people try to blend cultures together there is some outcry that it is wrong. I suppose in some cases it may be, but history is FULL of cultures meeting and exchanging bits of it. Like Indonesia became Islamic not from conquest, but from trade, and embracing the religion and cultures of their business partners strengthen ties.
Another example: When it comes to dress, look at like Japan. Baseball hats, business suits, ties - all from “western” culture. Then if you look deeper at their subsets of fashion where they take things like French Maid dresses, American Hip Hop, and even stuff like Goth culture and remixes it into something unique to their area, but definitely derivative of other cultures.
So, I guess even though I am not a big fan of Gucci in general, the idea that some day turbans are common enough in the US that I never have to hear the slur “towel head” again and people don’t get all anxious because people are wearing them I think is a good thing. YMMV.
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Yeah, MM is about the same!
Not trolling, but this aint racism.
Sikh is a religion, and while you might be an asshole for mocking or appropriating religious iconography, I am totally okay with you doing it if you want.
I don’t really care how nice Sikhs are or how much they are picked on by Christians. As an atheist, I fully endorse the rights of Gucci to “rip off” their religious symbolism for fashion.
As a non-Jewish person in a secular society I have a “right” to wear a Yarmulke and a jacket with a giant sequined Star of David as a fashion statement.
Likewise, if I chose to do so other people would be well within their rights to question my taste and lack of sensitivity toward Jewish people. That’s one reason you don’t see Gucci marketing Yarmulkes to gentiles.
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that selection focuses on the aliexpress end of the market.
As an atheist I find it particularly disgusting when people attempt to make ignorance and apathy for human life a moral high ground.
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Very much this. What we have a legal right to do says a lot about the society we live in. How we choose to exercise those rights says a lot about us as individuals.
I don’t think anyone is trying to put Gucci’s designers in prison. This is literally just a bunch of Sikh people requesting that their culture be treated with the same respect that other groups would get.
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Christians in the U.S. enjoy center stage and political power. Using a Christian symbol isn’t a case of punching down.
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A Sikh would not buy a fake turban-hat. Their turbans are wrapped cloth.
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