There are a few things I always want to say about guns when they come up. First, we really need to pull the teeth of the NRA by doing something about Citizens United. Second, only something like 0.0003% of guns are used to kill other people each year. Two-thirds of gun deaths are suicides, largely by middle-aged white men. Guns CAN perform a positive, anti-government social role. God help me. I know what I sound like. But I’m thinking of the Black Panthers, not Cliven Bundy or some “beta male” blame-and-bang spree killer. Anyway, the NRA actually pushed for gun control because of the Panthers. And the Panthers actually put a mild chill on police violence, until, well, they got their teeth pulled by COINTELPRO and police assassins. Of course, you don’t get to pick and choose. None of this stuff adds up to a solution, or an opinion; it’s just all the weird fringe shit that gets lost as people take up their familiar positions. (My position, unrelated to all those factoids: we should have stricter licensing, bans on high-capacity magazines, and other reasonable limits. But I dunno. Racism, xenophobia, Dirty Harry/ Barney Fife fantasies, and “tacticool” sell a lot of guns, so I guess I’m at least back to Citizens United and the industry-funded NRA.)
There are ways to keep everyone safe, including children. Just like you keep them safe from falls and drowning, boiling water on the stove, cleaning chemicals, dog bites, bee stings, whiskers on kittens, and warm woolen mittens.
Wait - not those last two…
The NRA supported the 1968 bill - which go ahead and read - it has a lot of good stuff the average person would call “common sense”. Which part of that bill would you repeal and why?
However, since then the NRA has a coup of leadership, the focus on gun rights became much more hard line. The portrayal of them and their members as racist and xenophobic is tiresome and incorrect. Yes you can find gun owners who fit this stereotype, they are not the majority.
They aren’t supporting laws that are racist. They are actually fighting against racist gun laws. Would you support a bill that would require the Sheriff Department to sign off on a handgun purchase? Seems like a common sense gun law, right? That sort of law is in place in a few state still. Except those laws were actually enacted as part of Jim Crow laws to keep the wrong people from having handgun permits. You see the issue isn’t so simple if the very system you want to protect you is also the corrupt system you are fighting against.
Also the NRA is one of the largest grass roots orgs in the nation. They do have industry sponsors, but over half of their revenue comes directly from member fees of their 5 million members and private donations.
Why would you deny the Sheriff his due? His office constitutes the highest legitimate authority in the United States.
So you’re proving my point that such power is ripe for inconsistent application of the law depending on the views of the Sheriff and the people who make up the department? Thanks!
Our experiences different. I’ve been hunting and shooting for 30 years, and most of the “gun rights” guys I’ve met range from overtly white supremacist to “there’s black people and then there’s n*ggers.” That’s based on experiences in Tennessee, Iowa, and Alabama. So, regional prejudices probably play a heavy role. Then again, I read a lot of that sort of stuff on the various gun forums I’ve participated in. Anyway, I’m not sure you were reading my post very carefully, as some of that “aren’t supporting laws that are racist” stuff is more or less in line with my observation on the BPP.
The war on terror. The war on drugs. The war on the Middle East. All we do is war. No wonder gun violence is prevalent. You’re complicit too Mr. Obama. Maybe we should stop having wars against everything and everyone. The only solution to violence is to change our culture.
Owning a gun (having it handy) makes the potential for violence greater when people are overcome by passionate emotions (or even depression). How much gun violence is someone losing their temper or flipping out and shooting a loved one, a neighbor, the guy who hit their car, etc. that wouldn’t happen if they didn’t have a gun right there?
Hey, that kid needed access to a firearm because of… reasons?
I despair for humanity.
Bruce Schneier, in discussing security fatigue, points us to the color code, first promulgated in the 1980s by a handgun advocate.
In White you are unprepared and unready to take lethal action. If you are attacked in White you will probably die unless your adversary is totally inept.
In Yellow you bring yourself to the understanding that your life may be in danger and that you may have to do something about it.
In Orange you have determined upon a specific adversary and are prepared to take action which may result in his death, but you are not in a lethal mode.
In Red you are in a lethal mode and will shoot if circumstances warrant.
kind of an ugly world if you ask me.
Your argument is backward because the extension to fire extinguishers would be that people kept using them, not that people started fires.
Suppose there was an organisation in the US funded by fire extinguisher makers. Every time there was a house fire they argued that you could not rely on the fire brigade to protect you, you needed lots of fire extinguishers in your house and you should be ready to use them the moment you thought there was a fire. Then they started demanding that people have the right to carry fire extinguishers in public, in case someone was thinking of starting a fire, and demanded the right to use extinguishers on people you thought might be about to start a fire.
Pretty soon a lot of people would be in a permanent state of fear about being burned to death, and going around firing off extinguishers on the least provocation.
Contrast that with a law which simply requires people to keep a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, or a room with a live fire, and you can see the difference.
This, unfortunately, is where you break from reality.
But as a guy from a gun culture: Yeah, the NRA is way out of hand. They need reining in.
Sorry, I meant “demanded that people have the right to carry fire extinguishers in public”. Corrected.
Well, don’t get too excited about the Canadian stats. We’re appalled that our guide deaths are so high compared to the UK and Scandinavian countries.
Most likely, excluding Yemen the three countries with the most privately owned guns are the US, Switzerland and Finland (gunpolicy.org is a lobbyist group but the general statistic should be good enough).
Finland has a very homogeneous culture and population and is not the best candiate for a comparison with the US.
But Switzerland is rather heterogeneous (4 official languages, 24 % legal aliens, the “Grand Unifier” militia army is arguable no more - nearly half of any age group are not drafted anymore) and has a much lower gun crime.
The difference seems to be mostly cultural and political, if I had to pick one it would be the US focus on individualism.
This BBC panel on gun violence nails it. They call out the disparity in American culture and make it plain that in British/European eyes, the NRA is a terrorist organization holding the government ransom.
While I agree plenty of people do purchase guns for target shooting and home defense for legitimate reasons that do not include taking a life in any form or fashion. The ultimate use of the tool is solely death.
Comparing guns to knives for example…both are deadly weapons when employed to that effect. Both can be used for sport (I.E. Target dummies only)…but Knives are a utility tool used for preparing and cooking food for example. Their primary function and use is exactly that…kitchen tool (even if used in the field).
Guns have only one true purpose and their entire development and evolution is for that end.
Cruz’ disagrees:
[at the same time he’s a fine example why Europeans are dumbfounded about the whole US gun thing]
Hmm, I was thinking the logical analogy was more like “the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a flame thrower is a good guy with a flame thrower…”
Flame throwers for everybody!
Don’t forget the War on Christmas, which should be starting again in a few weeks.
But seriously, I agree. Words are important, and as we dilute their meanings we make things like REAL war just that much easier to contemplate.
