Louis CK seems to be doing quite well. Even Jim Jeffries seems to be doing fine and not getting fired from every gig. Somehow he manages not to make all sorts of vulnerable groups the butt of his jokes, while still being “edgy” and “offensive” and “whatever I can’t even”.
I find a certain brilliance to your comments given that Riggs is Mel Gibson’s character in the Lethal Weapon series.
Sure, so long as the “mistake” Noah learns from is writing better jokes, not avoiding certain subjects wholesale.
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That’s fair as well. I wasn’t trying to say he should avoid topics, so much as it is incredible to me that people are piling on about tweets from 4 years ago and treating them as if they are an indication of how he’d comport himself on the show.
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Louis CK talks about hitting children in his act. I’m not familiar with Jeffries stand-up, but ads for his show had a guy with MS played for comic effect. These groups not vulnerable enough for you?
Unfortunately, I find the recent piling-on far too credible. Perhaps even predictable.
You have either not watched the acts or are missing the distinction between “talking about someone” and “making someone the butt of your joke”. My whole point was that both talk about “offensive” issues without making the joke about the vulnerable group. When Louis talks about hitting children, he’s not making fun of children who get hit. When Jeffries uses a guy in a wheelchair, he’s doing the exact opposite of making fun of him.
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The problem isn’t just that society is more easily offended, but also how insulting jokes have not adapted to the new method for joke-delivery.
Back when standup comedy was just joke-telling then it was easier to say “He’s just joking” because that was the absolute context.
Today standup has evolved into the realm of personal anecdotes and story telling from personal observation. So when a comic inserts an insult joke in there is becomes really easy to believe that they are not joking.
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I would argue that the butt of the majority of Louis CK’s jokes is Louis CK.
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Possibly the greatest article on outrage culture even written: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/
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The main issue I’ve always had with the progressive social justice movement online (and what - in my personal interpretation of Oswalt’s twitter rant - he was trying to say), is that there are scores of individuals who seem unwilling to take any nuance into account when they perceive ANY injustice by their personal, socially-progressive standards.
In 99% of those cases, I would no doubt find myself agreeing with them, but that assumption that it is a binary situation does little or nothing to help the cause, since no social cause will ever be 0% or 100% one way or another. It’s the same when I see progressive allies being attacked for a mis-step while their intentions may be noble.
In a world in which large, institutionalized examples of all sorts of social ills exist, potentially alienating allies who are - as much as any of us are - at the mercy of our cultural norms is a risk we should all in the social justice end of things be working to avoid. And sometimes that means NOT taking a thing - a small thing, or an accidental thing - to task in a way that isn’t purely for the benefit of education.
We are all fighting off decades - centuries even - of normalized prejudicial behaviour, normalized by the very society and culture in which we all swim. We are not going to get it right out of the gate. Hell, if history proves anything at all, we may NEVER get it fully right. The much to be desired Star Trek-style future of a post racial, post financial, humanist society may never fully coalesce, but many of us are trying. And we’re trying very hard.
If you are a progressive. If you are a humanist. If you are an equalist, then it is on you to learn where and when to fight. It is not everywhere, it is not always. If you think it is, then - in strict military parlance - that is where collateral damage happens. And we - as progressives - are supposed to be better than that. It’s why we deserve to win.
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Forget it, Jake. It’s Boingboing. (pats your back)
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The subject of the joke not being the target? This is the most nuance you’ve displayed in this entire discussion thread. Considering you started your complaints with “What if his jokes were about Arabs instead of Jews”, that’s quite a speedy evolution.
I couldn’t disagree more and I think this is the damage that Oswalt’s flagrant point-missing does. The concept that “proper progressives” know when to shut up and know when to sit down and know their place is fucking toxic to actual change.
No, Virginia, the answer isn’t to shut up and sit down, the answer is to be loud and obnoxious and wrong and be OK with being wrong and be OK with Trevor Noah and Patton Oswalt being wrong sometimes, too, because everyone is wrong and no one is perfect and you need to kick anyone who tells you what you are supposed to be like in the teeth for their patronizing condescension. Well, metaphorically.
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Louis CK is brilliant at bringing his audience in on the bit. He rarely hits you with the hard edge until you’re ready. Teachers call that scaffolding. Watch his Phoenix concert video. The closing bit was all about that.
Patton Oswalt is a master of hippie punching. Always an easy laugh. I’ll bet he was a coat holder in high school. I lost interest in Portlandia fairly soon for this reason. I prefer my comedy to “kick up,” not down.
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There was no evolution, just you jumping to conclusions. I’m glad you were able to get past that.
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Nitpick: can we retire this phrase? It is loaded and not constructive. Not offensive by any stretch, but it has bad connotations.
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Ensure is a tool of torture and no longer acceptable for daily use.
I hear ya there. But I suppose if the process could’ve been done the nice way, we wouldn’t even be havin’ the conversation, 'cuz Oswalt would’ve been like “Yeah, no, Noah said some dumb shit, but you can have people saying dumb shit, or you can not have people.” Only he woudl’ve said it funnier because I am a humorless moai.
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