Phoenix airport threatens to kick out TSA, hire private (unaccountable) contractors

While that’s true, the “need” to ramp up security since 9/11 has changed things somewhat. If it went back to just walking through a metal detector, or whatever more lax measures were in place back then, that would be one thing. Now, however, given the realities we live with, privatizing it might make things worse. Until we can go back to pre-9/11 security measures, I would worry about a private security company taking over that is eager to show how hard they are on security.

And I don’t think anyone is defending the TSA or imagining they are a good thing - they obviously have not done so. Many of us, myself included, want an end to security theater, not a new (possibly less accountable) organization looking up our poop shoots for the pleasure of being corralled in a giant metal bus in the sky we already overpay for.

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Could it be the work slowdown that they’re claiming is due to staffing reductions? Oddly enough the only places where the slowdown is happening is in the places where they interact with the public. The same thing is happening at the San Diego airport. Long lines all of a sudden despite no actual staffing changes and no increase in traffic.

This is standard bureaucratic behavior, documented for decades.

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It could be, but they did close one of the three security checkpoints, for maintenance, they said:

[quote=“Mindysan33, post:82, topic:78097, full:true”]

While that’s true, the “need” to ramp up security since 9/11 has changed things somewhat. If it went back to just walking through a metal detector, or whatever more lax measures were in place back then, that would be one thing. Now, however, given the realities we live with, privatizing it might make things worse. Until we can go back to pre-9/11 security measures, I would worry about a private security company taking over that is eager to show how hard they are on security. [/quote]

The first issue is the competence of the TSA – and there’s no reason to believe some hypothetical, fresh organization would do any better – when on it’s best day it couldn’t find the dummy bombs that auditors would plant. We spend a lot for the show of security. And not just the cost of the TSA itself, but the cost of airlines in missed flights and lost baggage, the cost to airport vendors (airports before the TSA basically being an excuse to have a mall), the cost to our foreign allies who must also implement this nonsense on their end if a flight will travel into the U.S. airspace, the cost of lost tourist money after it fell off dramatically, the cost in lost time to fliers (especially frequent business travelers), down to the cost of lost pocket knives and the waste of buying 4 and 8 oz bottles for liquids that are never sold in that amount. It is one thing to say, “this pain is necessary for security,” and another to say, "this pain is necessary because we have no better ideas for how to look like we’re managing an unmanageable situation.

Second, security never secures people. Security secures property. That’s why it’s not called “safety” or “protection”. The security makes sure (in theory, if not practice) that a bomb doesn’t make it onto an airplane and turn it into a meteor, or that armed men cannot turn it into a missile. But security can only operate by distributing the risk to people elsewhere, to wit, those mile-long security lines. And as the Belgian bombing showed, that can be just as attractive a target as a plane or a building. Nor is this even a problem with airports: pubs, buses, restaurants, theaters, anywhere people gather can be and has been a target of terrorist attacks. We cannot armor and defend all people who are regularly at risk. We can only encourage extremists to pick a softer target, preferably one which is also smaller. In other words, we want to reduce their killing efficiency to be no more than a bad bus accident. And so far we’ve done that everywhere except airports.

Third, I doubt very much that the risk is somehow more grave today than in the past. U.S. planes were being hijacked and U.S. locations bombed left and right in the 70s. Elsewhere bombings continued well into the 90s. Modern security has helped a little, but not much. What has helped is having fewer angry nutjobs with the skills and motivation to bomb us. And even if these are exceptional times, none of the three well-known, would-be bombers in post-9/11 air travel were caught in security. They were caught by passengers who noticed they were trying to light their shoes, underwear, etc. So far, the TSA has never been able to claim that their standard procedures – or even luck on their part – led them to foil an attempted attack.

Finally, I cannot think of any way that private security would be somehow worse than this mess. TSA agents are already unfriendly, perform unreliably, are completely ineffective at their stated task at their best, are generally unaccountable, and are thoroughly protected from consequences even if caught in some act of malice or stupidity. You cannot get any worse than what we have unless you armed them and indemnified them for shooting people. Any other change can only be an improvement.

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It can always get worse and someone seeking to profit off security theater will probably do it. There is a total lack of ANY accountability from the public for a private corporations, meaning less accountability. I do believe it will make things worse than better. YMMV.

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So, once again, I want to reiterate that I’m not out to defend the TSA, as they’ve clearly done a horrible job. I do want to stress that I also believe that a “privatized” solution may not be the answer. We do have another case where a “quick fix” was demanded, with the problems with the VA, and here is what has happened since congress pushed through a solution, which was handed over to the private sector:

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/05/16/477814218/attempted-fix-for-va-health-delays-creates-new-bureaucracy

Things are as bad or worse as they were before.

I’d suggest pushing for accountability from the TSA or better yet to an END to security theater is the answer here, not privatization.

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Thank you for mentioning this. The TSA is not uniquely awful. The weirdest worst thing is that in quite a bit of the rest of the world, there is one last hand-check at the gate, and no liquid bottles allowed on. How uncharacteristic for the TSA to pass on the opportunity to fuck over passengers that one last time.

Recently flew out of Bolivia, and had our backpacks checked no less than four times. Yet my bottle of water got by unscathed.

At one point they made a big fuss about something about my wife’s bag. By that point it had already been inspected thoroughly by hand, so she asked why the fuss when it had already been inspected. “That was the drug inspection”. Ugh.

As others have noted, it was private before 9/11, and 9/11 was not a failure of airport screening, so the whole TSA thing was a “we have to be seen to be doing something” red herring to begin with. This is privatization scare-mongering. It could be just as accountable to the public as it was before or is now; or it could be even more so, or less so, it just depends on how the contracts are structured. Devil’s in the details and all. Have the local authorities be the contracting entity, not the feds. Set the metrics for security audits, wait times, customer service, etc, and if they don’t hit their targets, they’re fired.

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Another reason not to fly unless I really, really, REALLY have to (like going overseas).

If the airlines lose enough money, they’ll make sure the congresspeople and senators they have bought do something about the TSA (like get rid of it or change it to actually be useful). Until that day, no flying if I don’t have to.

You’ll sure as hell get complaints about ticket prices and how first class gets assault rifles where everyone in business has to make do with pistols.

Correct. If the flight passes through U.S. airspace, it has to follow the same procedures as a U.S. flight.

Flying out of Shanghai each way, travel on my domestic leg (to Shenzhen) was painless, while the return international leg (to SFO) was just as painless as the U.S. flight. It was similarly painless flying within Japan, and painful flying back to the U.S.

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It’s been my experience that domestic flights within the US are relatively easy (depending on whether it’s a holiday or not, of course), but incoming international flights are much worse, depending on what airport you’re entering. LAX, SFO, no problems, very easy. But flying into JFK or O’Hare was a nightmare. I vividly remember the customs scene at O’Hare – TSA people yelling “VISITORS BLUE LINE!!! VISITORS BLUE LINE!” at everyone (without explaining what that meant) and pushing people around roughly.

Not my experience. Domestic flights are just as painful as international in the U.S. The lines are sometimes shorter, but not as often lately.

Air travel within a foreign country (as opposed to a direct international flight in) is generally rare for me, but every time it’s happened it’s been like I remember airports being in the 80s and 90s: pass through a metal detector, don’t brake stride, don’t take off your shoes, and if nothing rings/no one actually flags you down, they didn’t see anything.

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Sounds like experiences vary wildly depending on what airport you’re at. I flew domestically 6-8 times last year and never spent more than a half hour in line, only had to take my shoes off twice, and didn’t see anything in the way of the 3-hour nightmares reported here. BOS, CMH, LAX, SFO, MCO.

Virtually 100%.
I see it consistently to/from the USA and virtually never between any other two countries, except when the flight is continuing on to the USA!

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Lucky you. The only time I ever flew without some airline employee scribbling “ssss” in red ink on my boarding pass, I was a young child.

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