You know, except for Kennedy and Johnson. Johnson was running on passing civil rights legislation while Goldwater was running against that legislation. But sure, plenty of democrats were still segregationist in the deep south, but it was a party in transition in crisis. Given Goldwater’s position on civil rights that doesn’t hold much water.
3 Likes
Oh I’m absolutely doing that. People here have principles that are more in line with Sanders, I have principles that are more in line with Sanders.
But I expect Hillary will be able to get more done, I also think she’ll be a more competent leader in general.
Perhaps Obama did claim to be uncompromising during his campaign, I don’t know.
But the only thing that surprised my about the Obama who got elected is he didn’t use the bully pulpit as much as I thought he would.
I meant all your colour with the “smiling like an asshole” and “pragmatism pragmatists pragmatist”. It’s confusing to other readers since they don’t know you’re making a joke and I’m not just writing bizarre phrases.
Ask someone if they want a new TV they’ll say yes, ask someone if they want a new TV and to pay $300 for it and they might say not. That was my point.
I don’t have time to go over the rest right now.
You are 100% correct. It’s a blocking move to “vote for” Hillary. It is merely there as a last resort to prevent rollback of key rights we have won. It has nothing to do with her and everything to do with not voting for Trump. It might as well say on the ballot:
Trump (R)…
NOT Trump (D) …X
I am imploring you kindly for your vote for the D in November, if it comes to it. Pretty please? I hate the corporatists too. They suck major donkey turds, to use the appropriate animal here.
4 Likes
no it isn’t.
Would you please just stop speaking for the group and state your own mind.
You’re not talented at speaking for others, but your opinion on your own opinion is welcome.
2 Likes
It’s not an argument that she’s worse than the Republicans; it’s an argument that she’s worse than Bernie.
I’m not a person who would refuse to vote for Clinton if the alternative is a Republican. I am a person who thinks that the Democratic party would be bat-shit crazy to choose Clinton as their nominee.
Clinton can be relied upon to throw any given set of supporters to the wolves the second that it becomes politically advantageous to do so.
3 Likes
Cannot make that promise, other than for Bernie.
Maybe you could compromise, since there are immovable objections and Hillary is NOT an unstoppble force.
2 Likes
You live in Texas, don’t you?
Will voting for Clinton make the slightest difference?
1 Like
I do not want to see Hillary on my TV.
I have seen Hillary on my TV for LITERALLY 25 YEARS.
I would pay 1 Trump to do that. Also, there is a Bernie. I would hope 1 Bernie.
4 Likes
No. I’m sick of bending over yet again and taking the D. And it’s because I hate the corporatists too, which have thoroughly infilitrated the Democratic establishment. No more putting up with the corporatist donkey dick yet again for me (to use the appropriate animal here).
5 Likes
The amount of times I have heard people my age and even much older saying how they have moved left/become more radical as they have aged in the recent past!
The good fight is still the good fight, the “centre” has just shifted hugely right in our lifetimes.
8 Likes
Exactly. The Cold War ended, the communist threat was seen as being eliminated, and politicians began to see that they could stop paying lip service to the things that the left cared about it.
4 Likes
Realistically, no, not this time around. The hatred for Obama runs deep here, and so rebellion against blue is in full effect.
But the wall of R here has to be disassembled bit by bit. Occasionally Texans do vote in a D governor, so it’s not all red here always. It will cycle back around in about 5 or 10 years. So in a long term sense, it will matter to keep up the pressure one vote at a time, let them know that the blue people are not going away.
I’m kindly imploring people in other states where a few votes could be a decider…
And no I am not a Hillary supporter. I was honest when I said I really don’t like her. I haven’t given her any money, and won’t. And no money to the DNC or superpacs. I will give directly to the candidate I can believe in, and that’s where the giving stops. The rest is just deciding how to vote and why to vote that way.
3 Likes
When you say centre, i hear “money”.
6 Likes
It has taken some mental gyrations over the last few months for me to understand why, but what it really comes down to is that the principle of not voting for the D has the effect of putting the R in a better position. I hate the R’s way more than I hate the corrupt D’s. I cannot empower them. They need to have their balls cut off. If it means I need to check the box to someone I don’t believe in, then I’m gonna do it, because I am doing it for a different reason, which is to give the R’s a big fat D right in their elephant asses, to use the other correct animal.
2 Likes
So very true.
In terms of $$$$$$$, the words
“progressive” or “liberal” <— “center” or “moderate” —> “conservative”
the poor and middle class <— upper middle/bottom of the upper class —> the very rich
That’s the effective translation of the code words, in terms of social standing.
It is NOT:
LEFT <— “center” —> RIGHT
lower class <— middle class —> upper class
It is far more polarized.
2 Likes
I would have been disappointed if he had never been arrested at a protest.
2 Likes
I agree about the “centre” having moved to the right, but going by Political Compass results, I actually have been moving to the left as I got older. I haven’t scored above a -8 on either axis since 2010.
15 year old me would have voted Labour (although I wasn’t happy with Tony Blair), 35 year old me thinks that Jeremy Corbyn is too right wing.
10 Likes
I’ve definitely moved left. A lot. And I think living in the US has been a large influence in that.
I actually voted Tory in my first election (in '97, for John Redwood!), then to the LDs, skipped over New Labour (who I’ve always thought of as an authoritarian disaster area), and voted Green last time. Been through the ‘socially liberal, economically conservative’ stuff in my 20s, now definitely just left as I stampede towards my 40s.
(I think 18 yo me was a bit of a cock, politically)
3 Likes
He also engaged in extrajudicial directed killing of US citizens through drones and the worst crackdown on whistleblowers since Nixon. Hardly a paragon of virtue.
Obama isn’t a “good president hampered by the system.” He’s done exactly what the DNC and others expected him to do (and probably what he expected to do), which is be a middle of the road president with a nice brand.
8 Likes
