Pistol injures at least 80 people without anyone pulling the trigger

[thomdunn]

Originally published at: Pistol injures at least 80 people without anyone pulling the trigger | Boing Boing

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[kaboomj]

Heck, some firearms are dangerous without even a single round being discharged.

I shot M1 Garands in college (match rifle team) and “M1-thumb” is real. If you mess up inserting the clip into the receiver you can and will jack up your once-useful thumb. That thing means business and it will close/lock up regardless of what’s in it’s way…

(PSA: don’t play with guns, kids and stupid people)

[gatto]

@kaboomj

(PSA: don’t play with guns, kids and stupid people)

honestly, no one should play with guns. they’re not toys, and shouldn’t be treated as such.

[Shuck]

Well, obviously the responsibility lies with whoever was holding the gun. After all, guns don’t shoot people, people do!

In several cases, records and videos show, the gun fired when a victim’s hand was nowhere near it.

Uh, or with whoever was… near the gun? Who walked in front of the gun? Who owned the gun? Oh, I got it, the people who designed the gun. There we go - it’s still not the gun shooting anyone, it’s the designers! Whew! Talking point intact - that was a close one!

[stinkinbadgers]

I mean, ok, but remember that toyotas were running people over by themselves like THe Cars That Ate Paris until they figured out people were just too freaked out to realize and/or embarrassed to admit they had jammed down the accelerator. I could easily see some of these anecdotes happening that way.

I mean, “law enforcement says”. Like we’re going to believe them now?

[Hanglyman]

Unfortunately, the report also notes that firearms are exempt from federal consumer safety regulations

Jesus. I know ammosexuals don’t want their precious murder devices subject to any kind of authority or restriction whatsoever, but you’d think even they would want to avoid getting accidentally shot because their gun is shoddy and fires itself.

[VeronicaConnor]

@kaboomj

PSA: don’t play with guns, kids and stupid people)

The subtext being that you are smart, and thus get to do so?

Here’s the thing about stupidity- we’re all stupid sometimes. Nobody is stupid all the time and nobody is awesome all the time. It’s why we have PPE and why people who rail against it are arrogant dicks who’ve been lucky so far.

All guns will hurt someone sooner or later. It is the inevitable function of their design and they are all just waiting for someone to have an off day near them.

[anon76551318]

SIG Sauer…denied that the P320 was capable of firing without a trigger pull and cited accounts of unintentional discharges with other firearms as evidence that such issues with the P320 are neither uncommon nor suggestive of a defect with the gun.

The phrasing here is eerily reminiscent of the sort of statement certain folk use to dismiss everything from school shootings to January 6. It didn’t happen, but even if it had it was no big deal, but even if it was a big deal everyone else does it too, so what’s the problem?

[Otherbrother]

@gatto

@kaboomj

(PSA: don’t play with guns, kids and stupid people)

honestly, no one should play with guns. they’re not toys, and shouldn’t be treated as such.

Agreed!

[smulder]

@stinkinbadgers

I mean, ok, but remember that toyotas were running people over by themselves like THe Cars That Ate Paris until they figured out people were just too freaked out to realize and/or embarrassed to admit they had jammed down the accelerator

… yes this is another example of liable manufacturers blaming their victims just like that

2009–2011 Toyota vehicle recalls

[Mister44]

That was a pretty good article and it shows how the internal mechanism works. How it differs from something like a Glock, is that in a Glock part of the trigger pull moves the striker to full cock before it is released. The Sig 320 has the striker fully cocked. If something is preventing the safety lock, as they call it, from resetting or moving when it isn’t supposed to, that could mean something may cause the sear to slip and fire the gun.

Typically, however, when someone claims that a gun “just went off” 99% of the time it is because they pulled the trigger or there was a snag of some sort. When Glocks first became popular there was a rash of “Glock leg” with cops shooting themselves as they would start to pull the trigger on a draw, used to their heavy double action revolvers. So usually, unless there is something mechanically wrong with the gun, it is because the trigger was pulled.

But the video evidence of that not being the case means that Sig really needs to look closer at the design, how it could be failing and enact a recall to fix it.

[NukeML]

Crap video but whaddyagonnado

True Lies - gun falling down stairs

[Bonivus_elderheart]

@anon76551318

The phrasing here is eerily reminiscent

That’s standard boilerplate from firearms manufacturers that translates roughly to “we have no idea what’s causing this at the moment, but are engaging Operation ‘Covering Our Own Asses’ to keep from saying anything that’s likely to give laywers to sue us into the bedrock until we can figure it out and fix it.”

@Mister44

Typically, however, when someone claims that a gun “just went off” 99% of the time it is because they pulled the trigger or there was a snag of some sort.

Yup. seen it happen at a range, and it was scary as fuck. One of the things I did with the firearms I carry on rare occasions was to put specific dummy ammunition in them (they are designed specifically to allow dry-fire) and intentionally cause the action to fire, primarily so I can be mindful of the possible failure modes.

@kaboomj

I shot M1 Garands in college (match rifle team) and “M1-thumb” is real.

I managed to do that with clip-loading a Yugo SKS- hurts like a mofo. I also learned real fast about “keep the thumb DOWN when using a semi-auto pistol”- the web between index finger and thumb hurt, but thankfully no blood leaked out.

@Hanglyman

… don’t want their precious murder devices subject to any kind of authority or restriction whatsoever, but you’d think even they would want to avoid getting accidentally shot because their gun is shoddy and fires itself.

More like “the manufacturers did this deliberately because of The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, which is summarized as ‘The law does not require any product to have a warranty, but if it does have a warranty, the warranty must comply with this law.’ and the lawsuits from the warranty claims would bury them in short order.” (At least Ruger comes right out and says it in the paperwork that ships with their products)

@VeronicaConnor

Here’s the thing about stupidity- we’re all stupid sometimes. Nobody is stupid all the time and nobody is awesome all the time. It’s why we have PPE and why people who rail against it are arrogant dicks who’ve been lucky so far.

All guns will hurt someone sooner or later. It is the inevitable function of their design and they are all just waiting for someone to have an off day near them.

THIS. The only thing that you can do is have constant vigilance and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS follow ALL the rules when handling said items.
I have a not-subtle reminder of this with the scarred push stick for my table saw, which got a notch in it and was ripped from my grip and thrown when it hit the blade one fine afternoon.

[gracchus]

There is no legitimate reason for a civilian to own a military issue semi-automatic handgun, let alone one prone to accidental discharge.

Also, the usual reminder to ammosexuals tempted to respond in this topic with technical gunwanking or the like: please come up with something other than the tired old tactics. We’re always looking for new entries…

Guns Don’t Kill Americans, Stale Bad Arguments Do

This is a catch-all topic dealing with typical talking points regarding gun control in the U.S. that are regularly brought up on Boing Boing BBS. “‘No Way To Prevent This’, Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens” was a running series of articles in The Onion that was a satirical reaction to the regular incidence of mass shootings in the U.S.. It’s obvious to most observers why this keeps happening in America, even with dozens of kindergarten students killed in one horrific incident and l…

[Fefelo]

This pistol has a very solid mechanical design and has been tested beyond thoroughly. No one could find any mechanical way to reproduce this failure.

What I think is happening is the same thing as “Glock leg”. There’s no manually operated safety on these things. Any obstruction of the trigger can result in this. This unfortunately happens, such as a bit of fabric, a bit of debris, a worn out holster, etc. It also can happen during training when people re-holster quickly and, yes, a finger remains in the trigger guard, causing Glock leg.

I carry a Glock every day and this is the thing that always makes me nervous about it. My holster is rigid smooth plastic and I re-holster very slowly and deliberately. I also replaced the spring that controls the trigger with a heavier spring. I think manual safeties just make sense as an extra step.

[Kilkrazy]

I thought this article was going to be about how safety conscious householders have put their weapon on top of a tall wardrobe to keep it out of the reach of their toddlers and dogs but then when they went to fetch it, it fell on their head.

None of this sort of trouble could be avoided by ;incensing based on mandatory gun safety courses.

[L0ki]

@Fefelo

What I think is happening is the same thing as “Glock leg”. There’s no manually operated safety on these things. Any obstruction of the trigger can result in this. This unfortunately happens, such as a bit of fabric, a bit of debris, a worn out holster, etc. It also can happen during training when people re-holster quickly and, yes, a finger remains in the trigger guard, causing Glock leg.

Umm, in most contexts people would say that’s a dangerous design and maybe rethink things.

But no, apparently a pretty high risk of customers shooting themselves unintentionally is fine with both manufacturer and customer.

[smulder]

“… it’s so safe it needs a special exception in the law to keep it from getting sued” is not a good look

[FGD135]

So you carry a handgun every day, presumably to feel safer. And the particular model of handgun you chose to buy makes you nervous.
Sure, why not.

[gracchus]

@Fefelo

This pistol has a very solid mechanical design and has been tested beyond thoroughly. No one could find any mechanical way to reproduce this failure.

And yet…

Since 2016, the P320 has been involved in at least 100 shootings in which no human individual actually pulled the trigger.

“How could this be happening with such a well-designed firearm?” Also, how was OxyContin abused with such a well-designed time-release system? After all, these problems are never the manufacturer’s fault.

@Fefelo

There’s no manually operated safety on these things. Any obstruction of the trigger can result in this.

A safety mechanism on a dangerous tool that I can’t control as a user… sounds like a “solid mechanical design” to me. /s

@Fefelo

I carry a Glock every day and this is the thing that always makes me nervous about it.

If I had to carry a flawed tool that could seriously injure me for work, I’d be demanding that my employer find a new and better tool. The idea of voluntarily carrying such a flawed and dangerous tool for non-work purposes is, of course, so ridiculous there’s no point in discussing it.