Please read the policy proposal from The Brookings Institute that summarizes what Defund the Police means.
In addition, we can make the duty to protect and serve law (which it currently isn’t) and require de-escalation training and mandate de-escalation legally.
This happens in other countries too, but in most countries the cops and the residents aren’t both armed to the teeth so the consequences for mix-ups aren’t frequently fatal.
Yes, I understand. I don’t own a gun, but she does. it’s locked in a safe with no ammunition, though. I was just making some humor. But yes, if you don’t want to have a gun related shooting, don’t have a gun.
… to shout “stop resisting” as they beat us 
there’s a lot of subtlety involved with knowing which word to emphasize, when do you shout it, and how loud.
also, super embarrassing if you start at the same time as your fellow officer, so choreography is important in every engagement. you never know who’s watching…
I am not against the idea, it is horribly labeled. We live in an armed individualistic society. If one person wants to shoot another person? I understand the police over react. They don’t prevent crime, but punish someone for crime being committed. It seems like a horrible job, one I wouldn’t want. Who would like to be police?
Oh, please, let’s not do this. It’s not for you.. It’s named for and by the people most affected by police brutality.
Six figure salary with no college degree, retirement in 20, power over anybody, safer than a teacher, the strongest union in the country. Yeah, that’s fucking horrible.
The question is how do we/you convince enough people. We could defund, discouraging people with a college degree from ever considering the possibility. We could say that all we want to do is shout and have nothing happen. There will never be a time when my way is the right way. I am sorry that is true for most of us.
I think the police benefits speak to how unpleasant the job is.
Many local police forces in the US won’t take someone with a college degree. They have an intelligence test limit, and can and will reject you for being too high.
Frankly, the police in the US would be vastly improved if an actual college degree were required. Like it is in many other parts of the world.
That depends on who is shouting, how many, how loudly, and where. Enough shouting can start a revolution. And you could always try shouting in your local place of democracy: I’m guessing you’re American, and with that attitude towards the police, I’m further guessing that you’re not a PoC. Talking to the local council? Your representative? Your senator? Tried running for town council? State legislature? Federal government? Yelling to the right people in those places has been known to have an effect. You don’t know until you try. Who knows, you might find some other systemic problems to look at while you’re there.
Everyone else thinks the police benefits speak to how unutterably powerful the Police Unions are.
So you’re ok with a constant deluge of police brutality against BIPOC, against everyone, really? You are OK with a sub-50% close rate on violent crimes, with almost 50% of those convictions incorrect? With several states where that innacurracy feeds a death penalty system where even direct evidence of innocence doesn’t lead to the execution being overturned? While assholes who outright murder people like Kyle Rittenhouse go free? Where for-profit prisons create a perverse incentive towards recidivism and the school-to-prison pipeline?
Did you even read the Brookings Institute link? The proposal makes sense for police, too. They just have to let go of the insane power they wield. Which, as it turns out, is why they fight against accountability so hard. As a group, they don’t want to be good at their job. They want power without accountability. If you’re ok with that you are part of the problem.
ETA:
I don’t understand revolution. I don’t understand winner take all. It is about bringing people along to your point of view. The police maybe powerfully, as well as a job for you or me. I seem to think that we are starting this backwards.
I would suggest that the Justice System needs to be reformed.
Sometimes the status quo is both unbearable and self-supporting. If it won’t allow for reform, then sometimes the only recourse is to sweep it aside and replace it with something that isn’t a source of despair and horror for most people.
A riot is the language of the unheard. If it won’t hear, it must be made to hear.
Or do I need to use shorter words to explain it?
In a perfect world, you are right. In other countries, police reform from outside has been attempted and implemented and has sometimes even worked. It’s hard, it’s unceasing effort to maintain, but it’s worth it and it’s necessary.
In the US, it’s occasionally been tried, in local areas, in cities, in states, but for whatever reason (*cough*police unions and Law’n’Order conservatives*cough*) have mostly failed. The system is big enough, and flexible enough, and powerful enough, and flat out corrupt enough, to resist external pressure. The US police force system as a system (being a system of interlocking, reinforcing, semi-independent forces, each looking out for the others at the expense of “civilians”, as they universally call everyone else) must be destroyed utterly and replaced with a modern civilised well trained police force system. One which is actually there to look out for the well-being of everyone, not a barely-disguised protection racket.
Your police system is poisoned from its birth, and you deserve better, and you’re not going to get better from it incrementally or by asking it nicely.
And when you’ve fixed that, the rest of the world recommends you work on your Health system, and have a good long hard look at the concept of “elected judges”.
I don’t know of any instance of revolution working, inevitably it becomes about people maintaining power. I do understand the system is unfair. We can all imagine a better system. I imagine you think I am defending the police? I think that you need to develop your arguments. I don’t think you need to win, but convince. I have looked at elected Judges and Prosecutors, both suffer the same problems. Again, step back and think, how do we do this better.
No, I am not okay, yet you are not convincing.
You can’t point to a solution just by enumerating the problems.
Cool. It’s just: Convince who? The people who are convincible already agree with you (even if only in principle), and the people who have the power to do anything about it (insofar as there are any individuals with such power) are too invested in it to care what you say.
No. But by milquetoast “arguments” and vague handwaving about how “oh no everyone’s too mean we should all step back until we can think of a nicer way to stop the criminal gangs in blue uniforms”, you’re helping them. It doesn’t matter what you think of them: if your only suggestion is to, what, ask them nicely to stop being sociopathic thieves and murderers? Then you are officially Not Helping.
I don’t care to be convincing. You either have empathy and compassion for other humans; your neighbors, even; or you don’t. If you accept the status quo, then, as I said before, you are part of the problem. You benefit from it, even if passively. It’s also not my job to convince you of what is right. You have to decide that for yourself. I would hope, presented with the information in this thread, in the Defund the Police thread, that you’ll figure out that radical change needs to be made in how policing works in the US. If you remain unconvinced, well, that tells other people a lot about who you are.
