Putin calls for invasion of Ukraine; UN security council meets

Nope. Weird, isn’t it?

ukraine declared independence from the ussr in '91. i realize it’s a slightly different situation, but imagine if the british showed up in virginia in 1800 with 30k troops looking to “police” the community. now imagine that the british empire was run by joseph stalin up to 1740. i’m no fan of neo-nazis, but it seems to me that a certain amount of nationalism can be forgiven…

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The poor Ukrainians – caught between the tender mercies of the neoliberal EU/US cartels (via their lackeys in the CIA and NGO’s funding neo-Nazis and other thugs) and Vladimir Putin. Not a nice place to be.

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I’m not sure the whole portrayal of Eastern Ukraine as “loyal” to Russia has any accuracy. The country may be divided, but more along Ukrainian versus other Ukrainian lines. The situation could very reasonably be described as Russia using corruption to destabilize a neighboring country then using the following state of anarchy as an excuse to make a land grab. If Russia wants to annex Crimea, despite their poor record of respecting the human rights of the local Muslim population, one would hope they would negotiate some kind of purchase of legitimate land rights. Are we soon to expect the Ukrainian military to expel this invading force? It would be better if treaties could be respected and people not sent off into some large scale war. Anyhow, last I heard Ukraine was in serious need of funding.

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I’ve been getting my news on this issue from this LiveJournal user, a Russian ex-pat living in the US. Read the last ten or so entries for perspective on the current events.

I’ve tried in earlier threads. I’ve also tried to urge caution in trusting only western media on this complex issue that seems hell-bent on pushing us back into another profitable cold war. I was ignored on both fronts.

A few others at boing boing and myself seem to be the only ones who aren’t surprised it’s come to this.

Ukraine slides into full-blown dictatorship with brutal new law?

Nine deaths today from mass protests in Ukraine?

Nine deaths today from mass protests in Ukraine?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7201033

Finally, around 8 days ago this was ignored:

Ukraine: President and opposition sign deal; Parliament votes to free rival Tymoshenko?

Meanwhile… crazypants McCain would like to push us closer to a new Cold War with Russia… ya know, after arming the Syrian rebels, having open war with Iran, etc., etc…

The military-industrial complex would certainly love that profitable outcome…

John McCain slams Obama on Ukraine: "Most naive president in history"

Regrettably, I think many of the issues surrounding the Ukraine is throughly distorted by western media. For example, if Yanukovych is such an absolute dictator as we kept getting told, then how was Parliament able to free Tymoshenko, etc.? That’s a surprising amount of democratic actions in an absolute dictatorship. I’d like to see Edward Snowden get that same kind of reprieve here in the USA within our wonderful democracy in The Land of the Free, Inc.

Also, we keep getting told what a sweetheart deal the EU would have brought to the Ukraine, but nobody wants to talk about how the deal was in reality trying to bring the same draconian austerity programs to the Ukraine (along with military trappings) that have wrecked so many other western countries. The same austerity that sucks even more wealth to the elite while fucking over everyone else.

Also, we never really hear about how Putin was actually pretty cool and was willing to work with the EU in collaboration on funding the Ukraine and even Germany was down with it until political pressure on Germany killed it. That wasn’t Putin’s fault.

I’m not saying I like Yanukovych or Putin, but I really do think there’s more to the picture than the western media would like us to see.

I understand that there’s a lot of FUD on both sides:

But, that doesn’t explain people like Stephen Cohen, IMO:

Stephen Cohen: The Ukraine Crisis Could Trigger ‘a New Cold War Divide’

more:

Stephen Cohen: The American Press Is Wrong About Ukraine

Stephen Cohen: We Are Promoting ‘Anti-Democratic Action’ in Ukraine

Stephen Cohen: The Questionable Motives Behind Western Involvement in Ukraine


Also, one other thing to digest. If the Tea Baggers or Occupy Wall Street here in the USA started trying to kill the police with molotov cocktails and other deadly projectiles. Would we be defending their actions and/or be surprised when some of them get injured and killed by the police? THINK about that.

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Well, yes and no are opinions. I hope the specifics in Mexico won’t become reality, though I might suggest you do some reading in regards things like food, U.S. corporate involvement, and border refuge population estimates.

Just to let you know from a phone call this morning from the Kremlin to our dear Obama:

“He underscored that should the violence spread further to the eastern regions of the Ukraine and the Crimea, Russia reserves the right to protect its interests and the Russian-speaking population living there.”

Exactly…

Maybe we should concern ourselves with our own problems before we go try to save some thing or some one else.

Unsettling video for sure, but some bad things happening in a demo don’t mean everyone who is protesting is a thug. There was violence (and some pretty disgusting participants, nazis etc.) in the Maidan protests as well.

There’s double standards if the Crimean and East Ukrainian demonstrators’ opinions are rejected just because they are pro-Russian. There are no good guys and bad guys in real world conflicts, just people with conflicting ideas and interests.

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It’s still a place where a conversation can happen, be it a series of “F*ck you!” / “No, fuck YOU!” between US and Russia. At some point they might actually stop the name-calling and figure what to do next.

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This posts title seems to have been updated from “Putin calls for invasion” to “Putin launches invasion”. And though I don’t share the prevailing opinion that Russia alone is to blame for this mess, I am glad that according to all news reports I can get my hands on this seems not actually to be happening right now.

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[quote=“Cowicide, post:55, topic:24467”]
I’ve tried in earlier threads. I’ve also tried to urge caution in trusting only western media on this complex issue that seems hell-bent on pushing us back into another profitable cold war. I was ignored on both fronts.
[/quote]The press’s reporting and opinions are actually pretty much all over the place. And this isn’t going to lead to a cold war, much less an actual war. At least not for the US/EU.

The press’s reporting and opinions are actually pretty much all over the place.

The mainstream western media has very consistently portrayed the EU deal in a positive light that outright ignores all the negative austerity trappings, military entanglements, etc. - as well as other issues I’ve mentioned.

I’ve got links and sources above to back up my opinions. I’d like to see yours.

And this isn’t going to lead to a cold war

I’ve never claimed that any one event is going to lead us back into a cold war with Russia, but I do see a pattern of events that could lead us to it.

Some of us saw this current escalation coming, we were ignored and now here we are as we predicted while many of you are caught with your pants down.

Once again, I’ve got links, sources and a predictive track record to back up my opinions. I’d like to see yours.

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Agreed.

As Putin’s libido failed, he was always bound to do something as stupid as this.

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I despise Putin, but it’s yet to be seen how stupid his threats are within the geopolitical scheme of things. We will see.

[quote=“Cowicide, post:61, topic:24467”]
Some of us saw this current escalation coming, we were ignored and now here we are as we predicted while many of you are caught with your pants down.
[/quote]Unless you work for the state department or something, and believe I do as well, this is a really sad statement.

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See what Snowden got himself into?

Edward Snowden didn’t get himself into Russia, authoritarian elements of the United States government and the lackey nations who cowardly bent over backwards for the US got him stuck in Russia. Please get it straight.

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”Well, that escalated quickly.”

Not really, but I don’t blame you for being surprised. Much of the mainstream western media chose to ignore those who’ve been warning about western meddling in the Ukraine for some time now.

Because it’s a load of crap. Austerity programs require there being something left to cut from domestic spending. Ukraine is rock bottom on that. And the Ukrainians had no illusions here. What trigged all this is that Ukrainians are so poor that to many young Ukies, the option of hopping on a bus to Paris, sleeping on park benches, washing dishes and coming back with some euros in the bank was attractive. (Horrible thing to need, but great thing to have if you need it.) Then Yanukovich decided to deny then that.

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No, Snowden got himself stuck. If he had planned his moves right, he’d have wound up in Uruguay or Costa Rica, and at no risk of being used as a pawn in these games. And this is not a thread derail, because both countries show that you can, in fact, steer a country towards a left wing policy direction without also entangling yourself in a confrontation with the US/EU, and without having to get chummy with the likes of Putin.

You cannot frame this crisis as a result of the US military-industrial complex. Iraq, Sure. Crimea, Hell no.

Also, one other thing to digest. If the Tea Baggers or Occupy Wall Street here in the USA started trying to kill the police with molotov cocktails …

…I wouldn’t give Canada the benefit of the doubt when they invaded northern US states on the pretext of defending Canadian citizens and interests.

Talk all you want about the baddies involved in Ukraine’s internal power struggle, Russia’s moves in Crimea are indefensible.

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