Actually, No, in the modern day, the US would not invade Mexico to “help” it.
The very most we’d do would have troop ships to help evacuate US citizens, and then we’d be out.
Putin, it seems, has a much more permanent and interventionist plan in mind.
Putin isn’t evil nor insane.
He’s Putin. He’s calculated the exact, best time to intervene on his weakened frenemy. Couldn’t do it during the Olympics. Had to wait until the protests had made Yanukovuych flee, so there was a true crisis. He invades Crimea (only) as a test, exceeding the limits of an existing security agreement.
Look for him to wait and see what the reaction is. If there’s no substantial reaction, he’ll keep Crimea and start issuing Crimeans Russian passports, the same way Russia has digested Georgian Abkhasia and South Ossetia.
I guess 1983 isn’t modern anymore.
Sorry, but your logic is just all over the place.
Just what constitutes an “invasion” then?
It was part of Russia from until 1954, and was handed over to Ukraine in 1954.
Gee, Hawaii has only been with the US since 1959. I guess its ownership of Hawaii is also pretty tenuous.
Unfortunately, Stalin deported the Crimean Tatars,
“Unfortunately” is an unfortunate word to use in referring to a crime against humanity. Incidentally, many Tatars have returned to Crimea since, and you can best believe they have no interest at all with a re-union with Russia.
I can only hope it ends so tamely, if still so terribly.
You neglect to mention how concerned Putin is with the free self-determination of peoples in his own country. Chechnya, Ingushetia, Dagestan. All have been allowed to peacefully secede after fair and free plebecites were held to determine whether they should become independent nations or remain provinces of Russia.
sounds like a job for Solid Snake,
[quote=“petzl, post:44, topic:24467”]
Sorry, but your logic is just all over the place.[/quote]
Sorry, but I was trying to give some background, as best I can figure it out, not pure fucking reason. Nationality is illogical anyway, and often anti-logical and anti-human.
I just think it’s hasty to call this an invasion. For example, consider how, during the expansion of the United States and Romania, respectively, they portrayed counter-actions by Mexico and Hungary, respectively, as invasions, which was a useful propaganda tool. If Russian tanks are heading for Kyiv, then yes, that’s an invasion. If this is a limited dispute then not yet, let’s figure out what’s going on without throwing terms like that around.
I don’t see how you are trying to compare Crimea with Hawaii. Though one could argue that Hawaii was also illegally annexed, that was earlier.
So what term would you use? Gorrammit, you allistics have so many shibboleths about language, how do you keep track of them all?
I am not so familiar with current events, but why would they be happier with Ukrainian nationalists [if not neo-Nazis] than with Russian ones?
A lucrative career awaits you on K Street.
Nope. Weird, isn’t it?
ukraine declared independence from the ussr in '91. i realize it’s a slightly different situation, but imagine if the british showed up in virginia in 1800 with 30k troops looking to “police” the community. now imagine that the british empire was run by joseph stalin up to 1740. i’m no fan of neo-nazis, but it seems to me that a certain amount of nationalism can be forgiven…
The poor Ukrainians – caught between the tender mercies of the neoliberal EU/US cartels (via their lackeys in the CIA and NGO’s funding neo-Nazis and other thugs) and Vladimir Putin. Not a nice place to be.
I’m not sure the whole portrayal of Eastern Ukraine as “loyal” to Russia has any accuracy. The country may be divided, but more along Ukrainian versus other Ukrainian lines. The situation could very reasonably be described as Russia using corruption to destabilize a neighboring country then using the following state of anarchy as an excuse to make a land grab. If Russia wants to annex Crimea, despite their poor record of respecting the human rights of the local Muslim population, one would hope they would negotiate some kind of purchase of legitimate land rights. Are we soon to expect the Ukrainian military to expel this invading force? It would be better if treaties could be respected and people not sent off into some large scale war. Anyhow, last I heard Ukraine was in serious need of funding.
I’ve been getting my news on this issue from this LiveJournal user, a Russian ex-pat living in the US. Read the last ten or so entries for perspective on the current events.
I’ve tried in earlier threads. I’ve also tried to urge caution in trusting only western media on this complex issue that seems hell-bent on pushing us back into another profitable cold war. I was ignored on both fronts.
A few others at boing boing and myself seem to be the only ones who aren’t surprised it’s come to this.
Ukraine slides into full-blown dictatorship with brutal new law?
Nine deaths today from mass protests in Ukraine?
Nine deaths today from mass protests in Ukraine?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7201033
Finally, around 8 days ago this was ignored:
Ukraine: President and opposition sign deal; Parliament votes to free rival Tymoshenko?
Meanwhile… crazypants McCain would like to push us closer to a new Cold War with Russia… ya know, after arming the Syrian rebels, having open war with Iran, etc., etc…
The military-industrial complex would certainly love that profitable outcome…
John McCain slams Obama on Ukraine: "Most naive president in history"
Regrettably, I think many of the issues surrounding the Ukraine is throughly distorted by western media. For example, if Yanukovych is such an absolute dictator as we kept getting told, then how was Parliament able to free Tymoshenko, etc.? That’s a surprising amount of democratic actions in an absolute dictatorship. I’d like to see Edward Snowden get that same kind of reprieve here in the USA within our wonderful democracy in The Land of the Free, Inc.
Also, we keep getting told what a sweetheart deal the EU would have brought to the Ukraine, but nobody wants to talk about how the deal was in reality trying to bring the same draconian austerity programs to the Ukraine (along with military trappings) that have wrecked so many other western countries. The same austerity that sucks even more wealth to the elite while fucking over everyone else.
Also, we never really hear about how Putin was actually pretty cool and was willing to work with the EU in collaboration on funding the Ukraine and even Germany was down with it until political pressure on Germany killed it. That wasn’t Putin’s fault.
I’m not saying I like Yanukovych or Putin, but I really do think there’s more to the picture than the western media would like us to see.
I understand that there’s a lot of FUD on both sides:
But, that doesn’t explain people like Stephen Cohen, IMO:
Stephen Cohen: The Ukraine Crisis Could Trigger ‘a New Cold War Divide’
more:
Stephen Cohen: The American Press Is Wrong About Ukraine
Stephen Cohen: We Are Promoting ‘Anti-Democratic Action’ in Ukraine
Stephen Cohen: The Questionable Motives Behind Western Involvement in Ukraine
Also, one other thing to digest. If the Tea Baggers or Occupy Wall Street here in the USA started trying to kill the police with molotov cocktails and other deadly projectiles. Would we be defending their actions and/or be surprised when some of them get injured and killed by the police? THINK about that.
Well, yes and no are opinions. I hope the specifics in Mexico won’t become reality, though I might suggest you do some reading in regards things like food, U.S. corporate involvement, and border refuge population estimates.
Just to let you know from a phone call this morning from the Kremlin to our dear Obama:
“He underscored that should the violence spread further to the eastern regions of the Ukraine and the Crimea, Russia reserves the right to protect its interests and the Russian-speaking population living there.”
Exactly…
Maybe we should concern ourselves with our own problems before we go try to save some thing or some one else.
Unsettling video for sure, but some bad things happening in a demo don’t mean everyone who is protesting is a thug. There was violence (and some pretty disgusting participants, nazis etc.) in the Maidan protests as well.
There’s double standards if the Crimean and East Ukrainian demonstrators’ opinions are rejected just because they are pro-Russian. There are no good guys and bad guys in real world conflicts, just people with conflicting ideas and interests.
It’s still a place where a conversation can happen, be it a series of “F*ck you!” / “No, fuck YOU!” between US and Russia. At some point they might actually stop the name-calling and figure what to do next.
This posts title seems to have been updated from “Putin calls for invasion” to “Putin launches invasion”. And though I don’t share the prevailing opinion that Russia alone is to blame for this mess, I am glad that according to all news reports I can get my hands on this seems not actually to be happening right now.
[quote=“Cowicide, post:55, topic:24467”]
I’ve tried in earlier threads. I’ve also tried to urge caution in trusting only western media on this complex issue that seems hell-bent on pushing us back into another profitable cold war. I was ignored on both fronts.
[/quote]The press’s reporting and opinions are actually pretty much all over the place. And this isn’t going to lead to a cold war, much less an actual war. At least not for the US/EU.
