The Shirtless Wonder's Alternate History

This clearinghouse topic exists to discuss Vladimir Putin’s views of Ukrainian and Russian history and how they relate to current events. Please note that comments containing spurious claims about history from either the Russian or Ukrainian sides of the conflict may be re-directed here for further discussion. There is also a separate topic to counter fallacious arguments here.

The events of history are of course open to interpretation. Revisionist history is a legitimate historiographical approach in that context. Unfortunately, since the 1980s that term has been sullied by right-wing charlatans like David Irving as well as neo-Nazis to further their toxic agendas. The current right-wing autocrat of All the Russias has decided to join in that sorry tradition of pretzel arguments and lies as he tries to justify his invasion of a sovereign nation-state

I’ll start things rolling below by examining some of Putin’s claims in that instance.

First, though, some reality-based definitions we’ll be hearing a lot from the Putin regime and its apologists and Useful Idiots and tankies:

  • “Ukraine” is the sovereign nation-state formed in 1991 by popular and non-violent assent by the people of the former Ukrainian SSR after the fall of the Soviet Union. It currently ranks 86/167 on The Economist’s Democracy Index. In regard to this invasion we are not currently discussing any of its other forms, including the Soviet client state or the medieval kingdom that pre-dated Russia.

  • “Russia” or “The Russian Federation” is a sovereign nation-state formed after the fall of the Soviet Union. It currently ranks 124/167 on The Economist’s Democracy Index. Except where warrented (e.g. as the nation-state invading another or tampering with anothers’ elections), Russia and its people should not be conflated directly with the autocratic regime of Putin, Many Russians consider his attempt to re-construct the old Tsarist or Soviet empires along the lines of the geopolitical ideology of Aleksandr Dugin and his ilk to be ill advised. Nor should Ukraine as defined above be conflated with Russia.

  • “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DNR”) and "Luhansk People’s Republic (“LNR”) are bogus terms created by ethnic Russian rebels and their patron state (the Russian Republic) to describe what is actually the eastern region known as “Donbas” of the sovereign nation-state of Ukraine.

  • “Fascism” refers to a generic right-wing sado-populist ultra-nationalist ideology, commonly associated with Nazi Germany but present (and unfortunately currently resurgent) in many countries. Umberto Eco provides a serviceable list of its characteristics in his classic essay. Ukraine has its fascist fringe groups that enjoy little legitimate political power in civil society. The same goes for Russia, although Putin has evinced a greater willingness to ally with such groups when politically expedient and certainly employs many of fascism’s methods, which were essentially the same ones his former employer the KGB used to promote authoritarian communism of the Soviet Union. In the current war, we may see Ukrainian fascists fighting Russian fascists and vice-versa – it is the nature of fascism that there is no aspiration to their own version of the Socialist Internationale.

  • “Genocide” refers to the deliberate and systematic state-sponsored murder of ethnic, religious, or racial groups. Currently, there is no convincing evidence that Putin’s claims of a Ukrainian genocide of ethnic Russians in Ukraine’s Donbas region are factual. Please do not throw this term around as casually as Putin or American white supremacists do, as doing so diminishes the gravity of actual genocides with real murdered victims.

  • “Peacekeeping” is a term generally associated with United Nations missions in which military troops from disinterested third-party countries are sent to conflict zones to maintain truces and reduce violent incidents from combatant parties. “Peacekeeping” is not a legitimate description of troops being sent in to carry out an expansionist mission for an aspiring empire.

  • “NATO” is a defensive military treaty organisation created by the U.S. after the Second World War to counter the expansionist tendencies of the USSR during the Cold War era. Membership conveyed the promise of support resulting from the dictum that “an attack on one member is an attack on all members”. In the post-Soviet period it has welcomed members from now independent former SSR and Warsaw Pact nation-states. Putin characterises this as an attack on Russia, which says more about his intentions than it does about NATO’s. NATO is not to be confused with the more amorphous term “the West”, despite the Putin regime’s tendency to do so in a derogatory fashion.

As in the “And Whatabout Your Black People…?” topic, let me take another opportunity to extend to any new comrades from Russia’s “content farms” a heartfelt

[disclaimer: this topic does not necessarily represent the views of Boing Boing’s Authors, Publisher or Moderators but rather those of members of the BBS community]

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Comrade Tsar Putin’s Pronouncements on History, per Aleksandr Dugin – Part 1

Vovka sez: “Let’s start with the fact that modern Ukraine was entirely created by Russia, more precisely, by the Bolshevik, communist Russia. This process began almost immediately after the 1917 revolution”

Gracchus sez: BS. The modern nation-state of Ukraine, currently being invaded by Russia was established in 1990 after the fall of the Soviet Union and the end of its empire.

Vovka sez: "Then, on the eve and after the Second World War, Stalin already annexed to the USSR and transferred to Ukraine some lands that previously belonged to Poland, Romania, and Hungary,” Putin said.

Gracchus sez: this is true. Stalin expanded the domain of the Soviet Union by taking land formerly held by nation-states to the west of what was then known as the Ukrainian SSR (then effectively part of the Soviet empire). However, this has nothing to do with the Russian Federation’s current attempt to take land in the eastern part of the Ukrainian nation-state.

Vovka sez: “And in 1954, for some reason, Khrushchev took Crimea from Russia and gave it to Ukraine. Actually, this is how the territory of Soviet Ukraine was formed,” Putin said.

Gracchus sez: despite Putin’s unconvincingly feigned ignorance, there are actually well-understood political and economic reasons that prompted the (as always unilateral) decision by the Kremlin to transfer administration of the non-military area of the peninsula from the RSFSR To the Ukrainian SSR (with a remaining degree of joint administration in which Moscow effectively called the shots).

That said, most legitimate scholars and historians see both Ukraine and Russia as having equal ethnic and historic claims to Crimea and expressed confusion and dismay at Putin’s blatant use of election tampering and the intimidation by “little green men” to try to sway the outcome to Russia’s favour; most acknowledge it was showboating for the Putin’s ultra-nationalist Know-Nothing domestic base and an attempt to thumb his nose at the West. Finally, the claim behind the invasion of Ukraine has no similar basis in historical legitimacy.

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“How can you call us Nazis when we gave millions of lives in the Second World War?” It is a fair point. Ukrainian soldiers died in terrible numbers in the Red Army: more than Americans, British, and Frenchmen combined during the Second World War. He adds: “Tell it to my grandfather, who fought in the Soviet infantry and died as a colonel in independent Ukraine.” President Zelensky does not mention that his grandfather’s father and much of his family were murdered in the Holocaust.

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What did the world expect?
Eastern Ukraine has been in limbo for years.
U.S.A keeps wanting to expand NATO, and sell missiles.
Western banks wash Russian money with glee.
Republican politicians are funded through Russia.

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No passive voice needed. That’s what happens when Putin supports pro-Russian fascist militias as a prelude to a land grab.

The U.S. and EU countries have reluctantly bent over backwards to deny or delay Ukraine from joining NATO despite its requests to join, specifically to counter Putin’s BS narrative that NATO is hellbent on destroying Russia.

Until just the past few weeks, the U.S. has also been careful about what weapons it send to Ukraine. Most of the country’s munitions are Soviet-era stuff.

Less and less since the Magnitsky Act was put into place. Most of the laundering now happens in shady tax-haven banks.

A lot of them probably are. Sadly, a lot of them also would portray him as a champion of “white civilisation” without taking a dime.

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Most of the laundering in the non shady banks happens through real estate purchases, conveniently in the US and especially the UK nobody asks where you got that suitcase of money from.

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https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate

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Mark Frauenfelder writes: “most of the world supports Ukraine”

I get it. I live in the US, the US is all in on supporting Ukraine, and the propaganda environment is worse than the post 9/11 years, but seriously? You only get “most of the world supports Ukraine” if you ignore South America, Africa, India, China, and the rest of Asia outside of Japan and S. Korea which is about 2/3’s of the world’s population.

And like nearly every article written since the Russian invasion, the author of the linked piece ignores that Ukraine had been in a civil war fought along ethnic lines for seven years prior to the Russian invasion. The Russian invasion was act II in an ongoing ethnic conflict, not the start of the war.

In the post 9/11 years, Boing Boing tried to highlight the obvious propaganda and speak the truth even when it conflicted with the official line. Now 20 years later, the editors are old and comfortable and they are happy to go along with whatever everyone else is saying, no matter how obviously wrong it is, cf. “most of the world supports Ukraine.”

I’m a little sad that Boing Boing isn’t what it used to be, but we all grow old.

Did you… really just deign to speak for… not one, but several whole ass continents, as if they are monolithic?

If Mark is guilty of overgeneralizing, then you just ‘upped the ante’ by about a billion.

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Are you referring to the period between 2014 and 2022 as a Ukraine civil war??

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Yeah… cuz that’s also a Russian invasion w/ guerrilla forces in the Donbas. AND they invaded Crimea. That’s definitely not “civil war”. Remember when Russia shot down a KLM airliner flying over eastern Ukraine in 2014? They were definitely already at war then.

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Ukraine is part of Russia, so it’s obviously a civil war

/s

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Also, the claim that there is persecution of the Russian-ethnic population amounting to a civil war or genocide is propaganda straight out of Moscow.

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My first thought on that comment was “Russian”, but after viewing posting history, I’ve downgraded it to “useful idiot”

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70 countries are sending support. I’m sure more support in spirit that aren’t sending support.

Seriously- you lived through 911 and think the propaganda is worse now. You must have slept through it.

The House cafeteria has outlawed Pierogis! Henceforth they shall only serve Kviv dumplings!

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Even if this were true (and it’s not), it would not in any way excuse what Russia has done and is still doing. Nor would it provide any less reason for the world to support Ukraine.

It feels to me that you are just throwing out the word “ethnic conflict” as some kind of smokescreen to cloud over what is going on on the ground right now.

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