What do folks here think about the whole rehabilitation vs punishment thing?
Just wanted to lead with that since I have no intention of defending this guy; he got off way easier than he should have and should still be in prison. The people who defended what he did as trivial should also face repercussions, as well. None of them got what they deserved.
The thing I want to ask about, though, is if any of you believe it’s possible for someone like him (not necessarily specifically him) to atone and reform? If so, how? If not, what is the criteria for crimes someone can or can’t “come back” from?
Warning people in the area about him makes sense to me, but stalking him and egging his car feels more like encouraging otherwise good people to express cruelty under the guise of public justice. Like how venting by hitting inanimate objects feels cathartic/calming in the moment but reinforces violent behavior in the long run, it’s not healthy.
It’s possible.The problem is that men who assault women who are similar to convicted rapist Brock Turner --white, male, cis-het, affluent, etc. – are usually given no incentive or disincentive by the American justice system (or by establishment culture in general) to atone or reform.
There’s also something fundamentally bent about rapists and domestic abusers that reduces the possibility of atonement and reform compared to other criminals. The incident that lands one of them in court is almost guaranteed not to be the first one he perpetrated, and there’s a good chance it won’t be the last. Which is why sex offender registries exist and why warnings need to be shared.
That makes a lot of sense. A lack of empathy is what allows people to do those sorts of things with no tangible goal but to control/harm, while there are other crimes (some thefts, for example) that are done out of desperation, where the person committing the crime can still feel bad for the victim, but feels they have no other choice. Makes me wonder if “rehabilitation” even makes sense as a concept in those cases.
Convicted Rapist Brock Turner missed his opportunity for that, thanks to the judge who let him off with a slap on the wrist.
If the US had a Scandinavian style justice system, maybe he would be in a different situation. But by skipping our punitive prison system with only a short stay, I think this is the appropriate resposne for the forseeable future.
IMO, rehabilitation is not something that can be imposed, it is a journey that only the individual can take. There is no win condition, only trying to do better each day. I don’t think any human is irredeemable, but I acknowledge that most won’t make the effort in any meaningful way. I also don’t think that our society is particularly tuned to support individuals who do make the effort, outside of maybe 12 step programs, and some religious and charitable work.
I hope I haven’t come off as asking in bad faith. I just don’t think there’s much I can usefully say about this one specific asshole, just maybe use him as a springboard for a different, more interesting question.
I am not saying you are acting in bad faith, i am saying that a bad faith man like Brock poisons the discussion and redemption in a thread about him and him alone just doesn’t fill me with creative energy and empathy i could be using for a different person.
I can’t muster the mindset when he’ll never need redemption in the circles he works, dates, and engages in Society at.
There is a place for hard talk, but that time is not when the living embodiment of rape culture fails upward.
Sometimes it’s fine to just say fuck that guy and cheer on the women being lumped into “aggressive” response to a free-living abuser in their midst.
Society places the abuser highest, what do we do about THAT?
Yet there are systems that have a very high success rate for objective measurements of rehabilitation. Norway has a 20% recidivism rate. Contrast that with the US at 60% or higher.
Of course, Norway and the other scandinavian countries with similar justice systems also have strong social support systems and lower inequality, so lower recidivism may not just be due to their prison system and be an overall societal effect.