I’m sure they can, but it should not come by assuming that they are just like anyone else (any more than a show about American immigrants in Morocco shouldn’t start with the idea that they’re just like regular Moroccans, only white). If you spent a week with a Muslim family as part of their family, a lot of things would seem weird. My point is that this feeling is OK and part of cultural adjustment, but the tendency is to downplay these elements in TV shows.
Maybe focus on the Inclusive Mosque Initiative (or the US equivalent, I can’t believe it doesn’t exist) then.
The mosques aim to:
• Provide a peaceful, enriching environment for worship and remembrance of Allah
• Create an inclusive sacred space that welcomes all people
• Respect the natural environment
• Value gender expression and gender justice as an integral manifestation of Islamic practice
• Facilitate inter-community and inter-faith dialogue and collaborate with others who are seeking change for social and economic welfare and justice.
http://inclusivemosqueinitiative.org/
Are you a gay mosque?
Perhaps because of the way that some journalists presented us recently, it might seem like we are very focused on gay rights or are expecting all mosques to change. Neither is accurate! Our understanding of inclusivity is much broader than that. We want everyone to feel welcome at our events, whoever they are. We are not a mosque specifically for gay people, but we are inclusive of everyone and all family structures. It is a fact that a small number of the British Muslim community are also part of the LGBT+ community and they attend existing mosques already. However, for those who feel they need a place where their sexuality or their non-traditional family is included, highlighted and valued explicitly, we aim to be that space.
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This is true, and I don’t intend to protect those beliefs. However, I know how painful it was to leave my own religious beliefs – and that was when I had already realised that I had strong doubts about them, not because of any external pressure. I know people who have gone through huge difficulties and dangers because they felt that this was what their faith told them to do. I could say that their beliefs are regressive or ill-founded or whatever, but the fact is that your culture and beliefs can be a very significant part of you that is easily comparable to your sexual orientation. After all, many gay people have been in long term hetero relationships – there’s nothing physically stopping them. But in both cases the language of choice underestimates the attachment people have to certain parts of their identity, whether they’re inherent or socialised.
I don’t see anyone here doing that.
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And for some its the other way around.
But that aspect of white liberal thinking is never going to be fixed, its built into the baseline code.
But also, skip over that “person of color” codeword because really its “not of WASP origin”. In fact this same way of thinking gets applied to Muslims of Eastern Europe & Jews (who could easily pass for White) not to mention the weird ways it gets applied to the vast spectrum of Asia (some of whom get accused of White Privilege).
By numbers I recall that there are more non Arab Muslims than Arab Muslims but still, “vulnerable”? Really?
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For example?
Are you serious with this? Who conflates and where does this happen? Who do you mean by “brown”? “Brown” people are just as likely to be Hindu, Christian of various varieties, Jainist, Sikh, Animist, Buddhist as to be Muslim. Some are even of no belief system at all. What “inborn traits” are you speaking of here?
I wasnt aware that the islamophobia excuse had anything to do with nation states and geopolitics. Please correct me if that is in fact an official statement from a government official.
Given that the above seems nonsensical, it follows here that this too makes no sense. Perhaps you could explain yourself better?
I’m all in favor of more representation of Muslim Americans on TV or wherever. I’m all in favor of Muslims being shown and seen as (gasp) people. But I find Aslan’s dumbfounded response at 1:50 in that video totally disingenuous. The talking head asked him about the justice systems of “Muslim countries.” Then he took her to task: “Did you hear what you just said?” And he implores us not to “generalize about 1.7 billion” people.
I’m not sure exactly what the CNN person’s point was, but “Muslim country” and “country with a lot of Muslims” are not the same thing. Muslim countries—countries governed explicitly as Islamic countries (you know, theocracies)—are real. And they’re nasty. Saudi Arabia? Iran? Sudan? Would you want to live there? Are women accorded equal rights there? No, of course not. (That these countries have shitty political and legal systems doesn’t mean their citizens are shitty people. Of course they aren’t. They are victims.)
Are we saying good liberals can’t criticize Saudi Arabia, of all places? We’re not equating criticism of Iran with Islamophobia, are we?
Maybe I misunderstood Aslan’s point here. Or I’m just touchy about this. Or I’m just hungry.
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More so than with any other family you didn’t know well before that week? I find that hard to believe.
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I think people are reading a little more into my statements than I intended. If you spend time with people from different cultures and ways of life, then yes, you will definitely find some things more weird than with people from your own culture. It doesn’t mean that they’re different species or anything, or that you can’t identify with them. My point was just that regular people can act quite differently from each other depending on their culture and religious beliefs, and it would be good if this is not downplayed too much when they are being represented.
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At least the Fox audience would be unlikely to check his credentials as a religious scholar and historian. Oh wait, some might if they were trumped-off about his book. I don’t care about the book, but he is very sloppy as a talk-show pundit being an apologist for some groups that he obviously doesn’t have a clue.
I think you underestimate the speed with which new immigrants to the U.S. become assimilated, especially if they’re a family (with children) rather than just an individual.
Some food will remain the same, especially if it’s possible to find the right ingredients (often only in the biggest cities), and some cultural/religious celebrations will remain the same, but most day-to-day living will become “Americanized” rather quickly.
For example, some friends who are Sikhs (so, very obvious in terms of male headgear, not the sort of immigrant family who can hide in plain sight): at home, they have the same type of furniture and kitchen appliances and clothing and toys and…well, books are in multiple languages, that is true, and some of the artwork is obviously from their original country, but otherwise going over there is just like going over to any born-in-the-USA home. They do drive out to the suburbs on Sunday, because there are only two places of worship available in the entire area (and we’re a major area!), but if I were living there they would honestly tell me that I could come or stay at home, whichever I preferred (I’d go), which is exactly what my children have been told when they’ve stayed with families in other countries as exchange students.
If someone is unaccustomed to people from other cultures – even those who practice the same religion – then yes, I agree, they would probably find it a little uncomfortable to stay in a stranger’s home for an entire week. But that’s not about the other family being Muslim, it’s about either general inexperience or preference to stay with one’s own.
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I’m not flagging you, but I am getting weasel vibes from your comments.
I didn’t assume that the flag was from you. We disagree on a point of contention. I do agree with you in the aggregate, which is that a racist doesn’t need the additional factor of Islam to hate people or assault them. But I disagree with the contention that it doesn’t matter to them.
Frankly, I find our point of contention less concerning than being flagged for a very ordinary post.
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He’s saying not even Muslim countries are all run the same way and have varying degrees of freedom and oppression. Not all countries with Islamic governments are like Saudi Arabia or Iran.
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Are you saying that Aslan doesn’t know anything about Muslims?
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No, I’m saying that he doesn’t know about other groups that he sometimes talks about. (Okay, Scientology.)
Like Christianity, which is the other main religion he talks about… you know he was once an evangelical Christian, right? And that he has an MA from harvard divinity school in theological studies, right? And a PhD in sociology of religion from UC Santa Barbara… Do you think that these schools are just fly by night operations with no intellectual rigor? Is it the MFA you object to? What expertise are you employing to knock his expertise?
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I really don’t care if he talks about Muslim or Christianity, but when he talks about Scientology when he’s a professor of creative writing, and his degree isn’t in religion, I wish he wouldn’t.
That really sounds like the ideal degree to have when talking about religion, especially Scientology.
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He has 3 degrees that deal with religious studies! Did you miss that? Presumably, he studied scientology during the course of one of those programs. I don’t study theology, but I’d guess that studying cults are part of the training.
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