“the Russian claim that Obama’s ambassador in Moscow was actually a spy.”
Isn’t that generally assumed of ambassadors?
Russian dissident warns that the anti-Trump movement's Russian conspiracy theories are a distraction
I see no reason why we can’t focus on Russian election interference and Trump ties to Russian business and at the same time fight back against his actual policy making.
I get that the Russian people want to be friends with the U.S. again but they keep electing the wildly popular Putin who may very well be involved with tampering in our elections. That’s no way to start a friendship.
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she’s already married to Darya Oreshkina
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/faces-russias-lgbt-community#slide5
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You could make a public, TV newsworthy case that the current Republican free-for-all is simply the party delivering what the voters asked for. Making the case that Republican voters wanted a shady foreign power to interfere in the course of one of our presidential elections is much more difficult – especially since you’re talking about a major foreign power that conservatives have traditionally had an adversarial relationship with.
As for Russia manipulating the mass media during the election, they did that with the intention of damaging the reputation of our “free” elections. You tell me: Which of the candidates on display last year seemed like the horse to bet on if you wanted chaos and shenanigans? Trump didn’t even need to be financially in bed with the Russians for his presidency to be a desirable outcome.
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Why do we have to focus on only one aspect of Trump at a time? We should be looking into every angle because a lot of the critiques aren’t compelling to the people that matter. If the only thing that gets the Republicans in the house to investigate is the Russian connection, so be it.
Many of the Russian theories are outlandish, but it is not hard to conceive that Trump may be seriously in debt to Russian bankers– if that came out in an investigation, that’s good! That alone would justify impeachment, not because he is some kind of Putin puppet, but because such financial entanglement would make any decisions he makes in that area questionable. Remember, Russia invaded a neighboring country recently and is routinely suspected of murdering opponents. It’s not xenophobic to object to those actions.
This is such a fraught topic for the far left… Who can you believe when all the sources for the Russian angle are government leaks– the same people who are notorious liars? We should indeed be skeptical, but not to the point of complete incredulity.
I don’t think the Russian angle is hurting other critiques of Trump; I think it is just adding fuel to the fire.
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It could be a dud leading to nothing but increased anti-Russian sentiment. But it certainly is a more promising angle in getting rid of Trump than making fun of his hands or hair, or similar immature nonsense.
Putin would certainly have an interest in a weak US government, but when we’re talking about Russian attempts to influence the election, could that have had a significant scale? I think even if that happened, then if the scale was significant, shouldn’t it have been easy to detect? Surely the main causes for the Trump victory are US domestic ones.
What does that even mean? So all Russians, even those we say we admire, can’t form a reasonable opinion on anything that is happening outside of Russia, because Putin? That sounds like a mentally lazy way of deflecting an argument.
No, that’s just why NATO hasn’t tried régime change in Russia again. The attempts in 1919 and 1941 are what decided the Soviet Union to stockpile them, just as the bellicosity of their neighbours explains the Israeli stockpile. Things would be a lot easier if the West hadn’t seen the Yeltsin era as carte blanche to rape Russia rather than assist with recovery from socialism. Really the history of Russia reminds one of the saying that it is not paranoia when they really are out to get you.
… and?
Can you expand on this?
oh, perhaps I am underestimating polyamory, and assuming that Gesson isn’t game.
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This seems like a weird straw man that I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere else. Isn’t the Muslim ban one of Trump’s main campaign promises? What does it have to do with Russia?
Does the debate also center around whether Russia influenced building “The Wall”?
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I find this dissident’s advice interesting. However, I can still hardly wait to find out what the next Russia-related leak contains. And the one after that.
“What does that even mean?” [Then I very respectfully suggest that you please read again and as often as necessary until the meaning comes through.]
“So all Russians, even those we say we admire, can’t form a reasonable opinion on anything [Anything? Please show me where I said that. One thing (the one subject at hand) does not include other things.]…”
“…that is happening outside of Russia, because Putin?” [No, because of Masha Gessen’s own inference that because Russians don’t take Russia’s own anti-US conspiracy theories too seriously (at least she doesn’t, it seems), then we in the US shouldn’t take seriously the alleged interference of Russia into the US presidential election. Gessen’s expectations and tipping points are not my expectations and tipping points; and they don’t have to be.]
“ That sounds like a mentally lazy way of deflecting an argument.” [No, it’s an efficient and quick way of addressing Gessen’s argument that is clearly based on a world-view formed growing up in Russia and not in the US. Russians may be desensitized/tolerant in areas that Americans would find undesirable and actionable (obviously because we have more freedoms here) and vice versa. Not to mention, no one – not even a well-meaning Russian – has the information that the US national security services have on all this so far, so the true seriousness of the matter has yet to be nailed down.
In closing, I offer you some of your own words: Can’t even I have my own “opinion on anything”?
PS: I agree with you about the main causes for Trump’s victory. But that does not mean that we should not get to the bottom of alleged Russian interference. If someone broke into my house but went off with nothing, I would still want to have it investigated and looked at.
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I’m more worried about Pence than Trump, because he believes crazy things… and is competent. Or more competent than Trump, at least.
You can find a fascinating interview with Masha Gessen from mid-2016 here: http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2016/03/01/4416367.htm
Google is your friend. There is simply too much material to cite here. Of course, Yeltsin’s associates enthusiastically participated in the looting - but so long as the West was getting a slice of the action, Yeltsin was our friend.
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as a side note:
but it is well-known that Trump is seriously in debt to German bankers
my working theory is that the US society is not willing to accept Trump as an US issue. “caused by foreigners” is such a comfy explanation.
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Still reading, but I found this quote to be extra special:
Gregory Yavlinsky, the liberal parliamentary leader, had this to say about Yeltsin’s regime:“The government that was formed was without any clear ideology. It was neither red, nor white, nor green. It was based solely on personal greed. You got a system that was corporatist, oligarchic, and based on monopolized property rights and semi-criminal relationships.”
Odd. I’ve heard something similar of late, but I can’t quite place who they were talking about…
EDIT: Also, Bloomberg’s 404 landing page is worth a laugh.
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I completely agree that some people just wont accept that Trump won fair and square (well, as close to fair and square as politics gets anyway). They are trying to resolve the cognitive dissonance that people they know and love would vote for such a candidate, so they are willing to believe far-fetched theories that Trump’s election was manufactured by a foreign entity. But, I do not agree with you that somehow all of “US society” is not willing… That’s not a thing– there is a vast plurality of viewpoints in this country.
Also, there’s good reasons to be concerned about Russian or Chinese banks holding leverage over a US president as compared with German banks… Very obvious reasons. I’d like to see the tax returns regardless.
I don’t necessarily blame people for buying into the Russian conspiracy angle… It’s a salacious story and the media are falling over themselves to fan the flames. It doesn’t help that Trump has hired people who are knee deep in chicanery– even if there’s no “there” there, the optics are real bad.
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One of the hardest thing to know in a civil war is which side you are on… (or conversely who is on your side).
