Maybe not, only if they lie about it.
Yes, Its probably fair to say that if they had lied about having communicated with another country then it might not be such a big deal politically. At least that’s how it looks like from here.
But its strangely fair, given that its Russia, how could you get into politics and ignore that Russia can be touchy, and that being caught lying is going to look bad.
Well, there’s your problem right there!
*emphasis mine.
Given the documented examples of voter fraud in borderline states that allowed Trump to win the electoral college while losing the popular vote by a wide margin, I think it’s safe to say that nobody should accept that Trump won “fair and square” by any measure.
Yeah “fair and square” is probably not the right way to put it. He ‘won’ by the technical definition. I’m not familiar with the cases of voter fraud that you’re talking about… Is that real? I am sensitive though to campaigns of voter disenfranchisement and larger trends like how convicted felons can’t vote in many states and said felons are disproportionately black. The GOP does all kinds of shady stuff to game elections. It has always been that way and is something that has to be constantly fought against.
Over 75,000 blank votes were registered in Michigan, where Trump won by just over 10,000 votes. Trump’s lawyers blocked a recount or any investigation. So, yes.
It’s definitely not a given that all the Russia conspiracy theories are true, although Russian media turning against Trump isn’t automatically an indication that love has been lost. Both countries could be putting on the brakes in public so that they can say ‘What, we’re not sleeping together! That’s crazy! Don’t you see how much we don’t sleep together??’
Maybe just possibly that’s because Russia is both largely hostile to US interests and known to have meddled with the election to undermine Trump’s opponent?
That’s certainly… something. 
bit of a strawman. Sure, there is fanfiction, but the real Russia dirt is in business relationships, not some manchurian candidate/blackmail scenario.
There are all kinds of evils going on in the Trump administration but this is the first one we’ve gotten any Republicans to care about. We all knew he was a petty racist tax-dodging sex criminal narcissist oligarch with no relevant experience in government long before the election, but that wasn’t enough to give pause to his supporters.
If it’s fear of having a Putin puppet in the White House that finally brings Trump down then so be it.
This is partly what inspires my skepticism. I have never encountered any deep analysis of why/how which did not rely upon me already entertaining certain assumptions. At least people could easily say that the USSR was hostile “because communism” and have some ideological consistency. It is too tempting for me to dismiss it as naive nationalistic playground animosity.
As for meddling with elections - YES it is reprehensible, but the US has no moral high-ground there.
Whether the US does the same to other nations is beside the point. This isn’t about whether Americans should trust Russia or whether we “had it coming,” it’s about whether we should trust our own President. To that question I think the answer is a clear “no.”
Russia is friendly to Putin’s interests, hostile to anything that threatens Putin’s interests. It’s currently a one-man state.
Historically, Russian hostility to the USA has been largely defensive. Y’all did invade them at the end of WWI, and then spent fifty years after WWII actively working to collapse their society.
It’s pretty amazing to have the piece bookmarked for some days with “I will read that when I got a moment to properly read it”, and visiting this thread out of interest how this discussion would go (with a predicted “not good” in mind).
So far no name-calling, trolling and nearly no ad personam attacks. I could be happy, if it weren’t for the feeling that I read some replies as as mildly underwhelming “But RUSSIA!1!11!” which reminds me a bit like the updated “But her e-mails”.
As far as I can see from the other side of the pond, the “But Russia” narrative is pretty dominant, but the elements of the administrative clusterfuck are still pursued. (Or am I wrong? ) I cherish that it is a bipartisan issue, since I have the feeling that Republicans and Democrats haven’t had any other larger points to agree on publicly since maybe Gore lost the elections.
However, I feel the dominance of this sujet might turn out as completely toxic for international perception of the US domestic politics, and it certainly strengthens cold war-like bunker mentality in other countries. (Which I find deeply troubling, as a European.)
Sometimes it’s good to hear the perspective of someone outside the main axis of the conflict, so here’s my take as a brazilian:
This Russia thing is bullshit. Democrats (and some Republicans) are aware that there is a fight for imperialistic supremacy that isn’t of the interest of anyone but to the rulling class of both countries, yet they phrase it as if it was a fight to defend the way of life of ordinary Americans.
Trump is a rogue that only cares about his most immediate interests, so he’s not into the whole geopolitical strategy of the american capitalist superstructures. So the bureaucracy (the “deep-state”, the bipartisan apparatuses…) resorted to paint him as a traitor to what America supposedly “means”. That’s not why Trump is despicable, that’s actually an… interesting division on the ruling class. He’s despicable because of his attacks against the working class and the oppressed everywhere, and his politics of division and xenophobia.
It’s important to resist Trump, but not by ignoring what the CIA or the FBI has been doing systematically to the working class and their allies like Chelsea Manning and falling into blind nationalism to fight blind nationalism.
Udderly ridicowlous.
I’ve been watching this video posing the question how the transcript of Mike Flynn’s conversation with the Russian ambassador could have been leaked, or recorded in the first place.
And I wonder, what if that transcript came from Russian sources?
Because what would be the Russian government’s interest in a Trump administration? Trump as a person is erratic, Bannon is a nationalist hardliner, and on average, Republicans do not have a good record with Russia.
So the Russian expectation might not be one of receiving favors from the Trump administration, but much simpler, one of having a weak and chaotic US government, that has little resources available to meddle with Russia’s foreign interests.
With an objective like that, things would make sense that otherwise would seem crazy, like attempts to influence an election that were not so much efficient as they were detectable (still not convinced that really happened btw), or leaking your own ambassador’s conversations which does not hurt him but the guy he was talking to.
