Russian dissident warns that the anti-Trump movement's Russian conspiracy theories are a distraction


#1

Originally published at: http://boingboing.net/2017/03/08/wolverines.html


#2

Jewish lesbian mother of three fled Russia in 2013

Sounds like hero material to me.


#3

I often speculate how much hype and speculation there would be about this if the various meetings and phonecalls were with the governments of other countries. Would people freak out if somebody spoke to the UK government during elections? Or Brazil? I suspect that much of this is supposed to be controversial because the country is Russia and for no other reason.

That’s not to say that Putin’s government is any good, but neither are some others. Presuming hostility based upon vague ideological pretexts is itself dangerous and destabilizing.


#4

I’d still like to have an independent investigation, though.


#5

If Prump isn’t Tutin’s rentboy, why did Russian foreign services invest so much energy into shitposts, false news, and other pro-trump propaganda during the election cycle?

No government is going to invest the necessary millions of dollars in infrastructure and human energy just because.


#6

#7

Everything is a distraction except for your pet issue.

Stop telling me what to ignore, everyone!

(Trump’s people explicitly changed GOP platform to be more Russia friendly, with respect to Ukraine. Tillerson might have “interesting” dealings in Russia. We strongly suspect Russia hacked DNC computers with the intention to harm Hillary’s campaign/administration.)


#8

Because Trump is still pro-Russia, and him in the White House was theoretically better for Putin than Hillary, particularly with regards to Ukraine. Putin may be rethinking that now, since Trump is so unstable and unpredictable, who knows how he could influence world events and the global economy.

I don’t actually think Putin is some kind of puppet-master controlling Trump like a marionette, but I do think Putin has a dossier on Trump of compromising material, probably because that’s what Putin has done in the past to control his own oligarchs, it’s more of an insurance policy than anything else.

However the joke’s on Putin-- no matter what damning material he might release, the GOP will still support Trump and claim it’s all “fake news.”


#9

unfortunately there is something very real to the trump campaign and the russians…

just look at any of their faces when asked about it, they look soooo guilty like they’ve been caught eating a shit sandwich and enjoying it, they lie unnecessarily, cover up details there is no need to cover up, and act very sketchy. even the explanation “stupid and uncomfortable avoidance” doesn’t cover more then half their reactions. Look at the money. Look at the timings and the cluster of disavowed meetings.

well duh, of course they are or at the very least work with them. that is obvious right? that is the standard game of statecraft as an ambassador to any country you aren’t close allies with. lets not be naive.

The last thing we should do is avoid investigating this connection for the sake of the US people and the Russian people. If that check is removed, things are going to get a lot worse for both. We are holding the each other’s shitty governments in check.

What we need to do is bridge the people of russia with the people of the usa. the average people are all good hard working generally nice people. the governments are the things that are fucked. we don’t have any problem with the russian people and they likely don’t have any problem with us either, it is the two rampaging toddler governments that are throwing the tantrums.


#10

Part of the issue is that we tend to hold the Russian Federation to a higher standard than many other foreign governments. It’s nowhere near as autocratic as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Iran, probably about the same as Turkey, less of a basket case than Ukraine. Admittedly this is not company in which one would want to find oneself, but, for instance, if someone had made the absolutely true allegation that the Bush family is deeply involved in Saudi Arabia, that they have extensive business contacts with the Bin Laden family, and that US policy is bent towards keeping the Wahabis happy - no scandal at all. Yet a Jewish lesbian mother of three wouldn’t even be able to survive long enough to escape Saudi.


#11

Unlike a conspiracy theory, there’s plenty of hard evidence of malfeasance - at best. Nobody’s saying aliens built Trump Tower, but there has already been plenty of lying under oath.


#12

Even if the links between Russian billionaires (i.e., their government) and Trump’s camp are your standard rich people contacts, it’s not a distraction. In fact, it should be the focus. As bad as the Muslim ban is or gutting of the EPA or his comments about phone taps or sexist and racist statements, all of those things are within his power and his right. As president, he’s allowed to draft EOs, push funding cuts, etc. As an American, he’s allowed to say fucking awful things. And believe awful things. That won’t change tomorrow or next year or by the end of year four of his presidency. He will do the things he has the right and power to do as long as he has those rights and power.

But the Russia connection is what can change that power. If- and again, we’re still dealing with many, many if’s- all of this evidence is leading to proven links between Trump, Russia, influencing the election, business deals, etc… Then THAT can change his position of power. THAT can end his ability to push for that stupid fucking wall or his tiny little fingers to push the button.

This isn’t a fucking distraction. It’s the opening we need.


#13

Thing is, when people can and have a direct action to take against things the trump administration big chunks are done within the law. Things like the first immigration, travel and refugee EO were clearly illegal (judicially, not as if a crime were committed) and those were directly challenged by states, good orgs like ACLU, CAIR and the like; but some of the things are being done completely within the law (for example the awful AHCA bill). We can shout and scream, protest and petition, but at the moment we have a minimum of 2 years of this before we can start trying to get some more level-headed people in office.

Focusing on possible illegal stuff done by trump and his gang of horribles is important, because if there’s something illegal going on there it does need to get exposed and an investigation into this can lead to see other things that can get this unstable man-baby removed from the highest executive office of the nation. I know Pence isn’t any better with rights, but he’s not unstable and isn’t going to get us into serious trouble internationally.


#14

I’m not yet convinced that Putin was actually dictating moves to trump or his cronies, but I absolutely do believe in RF malfeasance regarding the elections. Putin does not benefit from a stable, law-and-order focused world–he wants a disillusioned and weak West that will allow him to continue enriching himself/his cronies and that will continue to promote the RF as an international leader.
However, I DO believe trump does business with the shadiest of the shady, and that includes lots of Russians because, let’s face it, Putin runs a petro-criminal state (or at the very least a petro-state shot through with corruption and waste).

Related, from Fiona Hill in 2015 (just appointed advisor by trump): Putin’s scared at NATO’s expanding list of members, feels as though the West is out to get him:


#15

Russian dissident warns that the anti-Trump movement’s Russian conspiracy theories are a distraction

The idea that any one element of a clusterfuck is by design a distraction, is quite frankly, stupid.

But I agree Russia is a dead end. It’s conspiracy city and not in a good way. Also, Putin is not stupendously competent and invincible, if it was engineered, there is considerable blowback, and even then, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

If you assume that Putin dies tomorrow and you still can’t predict the outcome of the 2016 election… guess what? Putin’s not your biggest problem here.


#16

Nukes, lots and lots of nukes…like 8,000 of 'em.


#17

Sure, because it’s obviously improper and illegal, you can’t even take campaign contributions from foreigners (despite that Trump sent out spam email to foreigners asking for donations.) This is the kind of thing they used to accuse the Clintons of doing, and now they’re doing it with RUSSIA of all nations.

Trump is pro-Russia because that was good for his own business, and by his logic it must be good for America as well.

I don’t think there was really any kind of organization in the Trump campaign to deal with what would happen if they won the election, it was all kind of free-wheeling and laissez faire, so all this is coming back to bite him now.

I agree that all this should be investigated and publicized, because it’s what the GOP deserves for devolving into the paranoid-hypocrite-ignorant party the last couple decades; make them squirm, make them invent obvious dog-ate-my-homework excuses for it, enough people will notice to make a difference the next couple elections.


#19

Because we all know that when things go badly, it’s really because we didn’t spend enough time faulting fellow liberals who didn’t oppose them the right way.


#20

“You don’t wake the sleeping bear to swat the angry bee.”

  • Legitimate Cold War Saying I Didn’t Just Make Up

#21

I respect and admire Masha; she’s a great lady. (Marry me!) But I have to wonder if her perspective on what’s happening (and what should happen) here in the US has been skewed by she having lived as a Russian citizen and thereby having been exposed to the ‘everyday-ness’ and normalcy of its totalitarianism and hideous shenanigans.