It’s weird that people just assume that SJ can even play the role of a trans guy well. The evidence so far is that cisgender Hollywood stars can’t portray trans characters believabiy - they can’t bring the necessary physicality - and unlike Raging Bull where you can just put on weight - none of them are going to start taking hormones for several years for the role. Because then you’ll only be able to play trans roles.
They don’t bring authenticity to the depiction- most often playing some weird caricature informed more by unexamined internalized transphobia than any deep understanding of trans lives and experiences.
So you get Jared Leto’s regrettable collection of stereotypes or an actress portraying a trans guy as a lesbian. Which was what SJ’s conception of the role was. She learned and grew in her understanding- thank you SJ! Others seem incapable of such growth.
i have tried valiantly to engage you on the basis of your positions. whether i’m
or not i feel a little insulted that either you think i haven’t been engaging your positions or that i have
in the end i can only deal with the plain meaning of the words you choose to use. if those choices have led to such comprehensive misinterpretation it might be well if you were to consider finding other ways to explain your positions. i can say as a teacher that if my class completely misses the point of an explanation i am using for a concept i immediately go back and find a different way to explain it instead of railing at my class about their lack of comprehension. your mileage may vary.
My cynical guess is this was more of an opportunity to be involved in an Oscar bait project.
If she were truly passionate about the subject matter she could attach her name to the project by executive producing or otherwise helping to finance and promote the film. You don’t need big stars acting in a film to get exposure.
Somehow I don’t think a film with this subject matter is likely to be a big mainstream hit anyway. That never stops people like Tom Hanks, George Clooney, and other big names from backing their passion projects.
I kind of thought the whole point of his role in Tropic Thunder was to lampoon this whole “white people get first pick at every role” problem that Hollywood has…
I think that’s probably true, but then again plenty of actors who aren’t “great” tend to end up in prestige films. I think that’s a function of how the industry at the highest levels are entirely risk averse.
Many of whom are not getting any remotely high profile roles, because they are not getting chances to read for them.
I think that unless there is something intrinsic to the role of those things, then they should be more open to different configurations of human beings, because out here in the real world, that’s reality. We don’t live in a world full of “beautiful”, thin, cisgendered young people. And yes, this is hollywood, escapism, blah, blah, blah, but you know, if you’re doing realism, there is no reason not to reflect the REAL world.
But they are risk averse, remember? It’s only when a studio takes a risk that pans out that the others hop on the bandwagon. Honestly, that’s no way to make art. I’m actually happy that independent films have gotten a higher profile over my lifetime, because it has allowed for a bit more diversity than I saw in movies as a kid.
and we don’t know if these other actors are “right” because they often do not get in to read for the primary parts. If it’s a big studio film (prestige or not) it’s going to a big, bankable actor, who is more often than not white, cisgendered, and often male. they often already know that when they do readings for the parts, they KNOW who they want. Or the actor is an executive producer and has created the whole thing as a vehicle for themselves. Our friend Tom Cruise, once again.
Not to speak for @KathyPartdeux, but she REALLY knows this history and reality. Transitioning isn’t the only metric of trans identified person, too.
People also use to claim he was gay and in the closet. It’s pointless to debate it, because he’s not come out in any form. Cruise has a lot of hate thrown his way (in part for his scientology activism, which he seems to have quieted down on). Calling him gay was merely a means of discrediting him.
In this case, its ridiculous! Representation matters. There ARE trans actors out there, who’d love to play not only roles that reflect their own realities in life, but a variety of roles. Like other actors, they’re interested in telling stories. Why not let them?
I don’t know why you think you’re the only one here with any cultural insight into the profession? Over the past couple of decades the inner workings of the culture industries (writ large) have become much more transparent. We have larger discussions in the culture over how casting works and how the craft itself works. Many actors are giving interviews where they talk about these very same issues in a pretty frank manner. As a cultural historian myself, I’m well aware of the fine line between industry and art, and how fraught that has been and continues to be. Do you yourself, act? Or do you work within filmmaking in some capacity? Should we perhaps bring @Donald_Petersen, since he actually DOES work in hollywood?
That’s happening NOW and has been. TV is becoming a place where a more diverse and there are more complicated and interesting stories being told about people who aren’t white, cisgendered, young and pretty. Honestly, the mainstream of hollywood seems like a dinosaur now that is afraid to be daring and tell stories that resonate across the spectrums of gender and race. Films keep coming out of the independent circuit that tell those stories, and honestly achieve more than critical success.
Then we need more trans producers, directors, and writers in hollywood.
Why not? Again, we’re not down with black face anymore, right? Why not have trans people playing trans roles, so that they can eventually play any roles. Maybe THAT is the place to start. With out opportunities, they’re not going to get chances, so this seems like a place to begin at least.
I was wondering about this… comparing Jamie Clayton on Sense8 vs. Felicity Huffman in TransAmerica or Cillian Murphy in Breakfast on Pluto or Hilary Swank in Boys Don’t Cry. Huffman, Murphy, and Swank are all excellent actors, probably some of the best working right now - but I don’t know if they can get into the roles and play them in a way that resonate with the trans community.
And if what was relevant say 20 years ago with the oldest of these films would still resonant or seem as authentic today. No one looks at The Boys in the Band as being representative of gay guys today.
Yeah, I think that they’re probably all still problematic (Boys Don’t Cry is the oldest, I think in the late 90s, Breakfast on Pluto early 2000s, TransAmerica, slightly later). But if that can be a data point in film making that makes people realize that casting trans actors in these roles means that they roles are more resonant with audiences, that’s a great thing. I’ll have to cast around and see if I can find some commentary on these films and how trans audiences received them, if at the time they embraced them for telling trans stories or if they rejected the representations as inauthentic.
OH! I almost forget The Crying Game, with Stephen Rea, with Jaye Davidson (a gay, cis man) playing a trans woman, who was an untried actor in the role:
Another critical acclaimed film, but one that people sort of made fun of, too, if I remember, because of the “big reveal” towards the end. I think it was considered a ground breaking representation at the time, but I don’t know how it would hold up today.
“Davidson, who had no acting experience, was discovered by a casting associate at a wrap party for Derek Jarman’s Edward II.”
26 years ago. I’d have to go back to take a look - but my memory of the script and character portrayal are positive. It was a bit more layered then say Leto’s Rayon.
But hey - not just little acting experience at high levels - but zip.
Indeed. It’s been years since I’ve seen any of the films I mentioned. And I’m not trans, so I can’t really speak to how authentic they feel, except for how I’ve heard trans folks talk about their own experiences.
I found that interesting about Davidson, too. It reminds me of that film that came out a couple of years ago, Tangerine, which starred an unknown trans woman, but it was a break out at Sundance (filmed on an iPhone). With indie films, I guess success is relative. Getting notice at Sundance can mean you get you more opportunities and broader distribution. But you still have to convince the larger studios to take chances.
Yeah, it was that year’s prestige film (93, I think). Dealt with a powder keg issue (North Ireland and the IRA) and included a trans character. That’s like oscar bait!
Also, I love Forest Whitaker. He is another actor who is great and not “conventionally attractive” looking at all. But one of the best in the business for sure.
