In which she never said - “I deserve to be a movie star!”
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without getting into the pile of late-stage capitalism bos taurus excrement involved in the text of the comment, i need to bring up two problems regarding the overall context of the comment itself–
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i wasn’t replying to anything you wrote in the comment i wrote.
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your comment “replying” to me is close to completely irrelevant to anything i wrote in my comment.
in other words–wt-actual-f!?
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I don’t really think SJ producing such a film with the intention of playing the role is discrimination. It is not a zero sum equation. Pretty much everyone who can come up with the financing can make a film about whatever they want. My producing and acting in such a film does not inhibit you from doing the same.
I sort of see the logic in of the argument from two perspectives: One, that her declining to participate would necessarily mean an a-list role for a trans actor. And two, that the life experiences of a trans person are so far removed from those experienced by SJ, that she could not possibly portray a trans character believably onscreen.
She has a long history of playing roles very different than what might be expected from her background. Even though she is a Jewish girl from the Bronx, she played an amputee cowgirl in Montana dealing with PTSD. She played a Dutch servant in 1660s Delft. Recently, she took the role of a show dog left on an island of garbage. She played a clone, who escapes into the real world. All that in addition to the robots and superheroes, would tell me that she has some talent in portraying characters different than herself.
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Of course- we could just let her speak for herself
““In light of recent ethical questions raised surrounding my casting as Dante ‘Tex’ Gill, I have decided to respectfully withdraw my participation in the project,” the actor said in a statement provided to LGBT+ focusing news outlet Out Magazine. “Our cultural understanding of transgender people continues to advance, and I’ve learned a lot from the community since making my first statement about my casting and realise it was insensitive.”
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Ah, I see the confusion, I meant to hit “reply” to melizmatic, but I hit “reply” to you. My bad.
Now, as for “late-stage capitalism bos taurus excrement”… how so? (and this time, it is replying to you, I promise!)
Yeah… you can go ahead and stop doing that, now; any further exchanges between us on this topic would clearly be pointless.
Thanks, and have a great life.
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You too! Nice talking to you.
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Though a non-trans superstar demonstrating that there’s a market for movies about trans-people might create an opportunity for trans superstars to develop. There’s a big difference between the Internet outrage machine and demonstrating a sustained audience.
Pushing Johansson to drop this role might have actually set trans actors back.
I think there’s two parts to this, not only do you need to create roles for the trans actors, but you need to also develop the actors.
There’s probably not any trans actors who are talented enough to carry that role for a feature film. Maybe in a few years if there’s enough roles to provide steady work, but those skills take a lot of time and practise to develop.
I’m not sure gay and lesbian actors are relevant, there have long been prominent gay and lesbian actors in the industry, they just weren’t “out”. And there’s a lot of instances of gay actors playing straight or straight actors playing gay.
if you’ll glance through the comment i wrote which you mistakenly replied to, you should be able to divine the outlines of what i mean. in brief, i mean that the “market” you extol above is a hollow potemkin village dominated by privileged incumbents or their descendants reflecting less the interests or desires of the mass public than it does the power and privilege of the groups already in control.
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That was already done to a degree with “Transparent” on TV . At a certain point Hollywood has to start casting trans people (e.g. the lead in “A Fantastic Woman”) instead of continuing to have white performers don the equivalent of blackface.
Asian-American actors are still struggling with this in a big way:
Hollywood continues its marginalisation of Asian-American actors at its own peril (so to speak); they’re already tailoring blockbuster action movies to be less dialogue-intensive so that they can rake in the overseas box office in China, but eventually that market will also want to see Asian movie stars (even if they’re not Chinese).
I highly doubt that. There’s plenty of talent out there, but the Hollywood star system puts white cisgender actors (increasingly those who come from famous and/or wealthy families) at the head of the line.
In the context of gay and lesbian actors cast in gay and lesbian roles it’s very relevant.
For the immediate future we need to see openly gay and lesbian actors given first shot at gay and lesbian lead roles in order to have gay and lesbian movie stars. Once enough are represented as superstars (we’re talking about less than a dozen) Hollywood is welcome to go back to having straight movie stars play gay roles (and vice-versa).
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You know I adore you, but still…
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as always, thanks.
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And there’s a big difference between having a big star play a role and having them playing it convincingly, with depth and insight. Rather than just reifying the larger communities preconceptions about trans people. And telling stories that have no basis in fact - like parts of the s Danish Girl or the deeply regrettable Hedwig.
In what world does someone decide to get surgery for someone else - to please a gay man no less - who really doesn’t care for vagina. But then - in some weird occurrence that has never ever happened in the history of the world - ends up with no vagina and a tiny penis.
Sure - these were about cisgender (and often gay guys) internalized trans misogyny- and one of the authors of an above flick had a hard time even admitting that trans people actually exist and aren’t deluded gay people. That’s how you get those weird nonsense story lines.
But - they don’t represent or help trans people ourselves. They just restate prejudices we have to deal with every day and make them more socially acceptable.
We don’t need these films. But some people really seem to need to speak for us.
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“in brief, i mean that the “market” you extol above is a hollow potemkin village dominated by privileged incumbents or their descendants reflecting less the interests or desires of the mass public than it does the power and privilege of the groups already in control.”
It’s an interesting argument, but I do disagree with it. Maybe I’m curmudgeonly, but long ago I came to the conclusion that the majority of people do not want to watch the same films that I do. So, I enjoy my Filmstruck subscription instead of going to theaters.
The Netflix situation does provide an opportunity, at least. People in marginalized groups are getting roles to showcase their talent in well-produced stuff. But, until there is a breakout, mass-market transgender star, there won’t realistically be any major Hollywood films being led by a transgender actor, whether or not the lead role is cis or trans.
Yes, it’s the old “chicken or the egg” paradox, but in general, Hollywood always trails the path of money, never leads it. When a transgender actor or actress can monetize his/herself, Hollywood will have them star. Until then, it’ll be the same ol’ stuff, and the same ol’ profits.
No film actors, including white cisgender ones, monetise themselves in that way without a lot of help and support and investment from the American media-industrial complex (which continues to prioritise the careers of white cisgender actors).
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irrelevant to my argument.
there’s really no paradox. it’s like you throw up your hands and call it a mystery that can only be explained by the invisible hand of the market but it’s only a mystery because you refuse to recognize the privilege and the power structure that makes it happen.
numbers like that aren’t accidental and they aren’t because women, blacks, and hispanics aren’t talented enough to accomplish lead roles or even speaking parts.
i realize you are unlikely to step away from your position even if privilege stepped out of the realm of metaphor and shook you by the shoulders to tell you what he had accomplished but the reality privilege and power relationships is shot through the system whether you want to believe it or not. if you’re lucky, you were born a white, cisgendered male; and if you’re very lucky you were born into the middle class or higher. your life has been and will continue to be at least a little bit easier than otherwise might be the case, i know i’ve been lucky in that regard. too many people haven’t been.
i don’t really have anything else for you.
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“No actors, including white cisgender ones, monetise themselves in that way without a lot of help and support and investment from the American media-industrial complex (which continues to prioritise the careers of white cisgender actors).”
That used to be true, but in the Internet Age, that’s changing. YouTube stars are signing Hollywood deals because they’ve proven that they can make money. In fact, a lot of actors now bemoan the fact that being a great actor is not enough, they now have to show how many “followers” they’ve generated for themselves. For better or worse (often, worse, as a lot of that YouTube content is incompetent at best), Hollywood will follow the “views”.
I suspect the first transgender star will have to emerge from that medium, then crossover into movies.
Not quickly enough. The Boomer old guard will have to be gone before it truly changes, and they’ll be hanging onto their sinecures in the Industry like grim death for at least another 15 years.
The good news is that big-screen releases aren’t the only game in town anymore, at least in the U.S. domestic market. There’s currently more prestige and only slightly less star power potential in episodic television, where the producers (often Gen Xers and some Millenials) are more willing to take risks on non-white and non-cisgender talent.
It can really pay off, too. The gender non-binary character of Taylor Mason on Showtime’s “Billions” has made a breakout star of Asia Kate Dillon who is themself a gender non-binary person. It is highly doubtful that the character would have been as compelling if they were cisgender or played by a cisgender person.
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I don’t dispute that, but the big stars are big stars for a reason, there’s some luck and pre-existing fame involved, but they’re also really good at their jobs. You can’t count on finding a trans actor being able to act well enough to tell that story convincingly either.
Yeah, that sounds bizarre.
I think it’s an issue if these films or TV shows are being made without the involvement of trans people in telling the stories and making sure they’re being authentically told. But that’s different than ensuring that you have a trans person as the lead actor, director, or producer. I’m just not sure that there are enough trans people in the industry so that you can count on finding a trans person with the right skill set.
But where do those actors come from? Only a very tiny minority of actors are good enough to carry a film. I hope Transparent had trans actors in the series but they may not have been able to find someone able to play the lead.
Agreed, the degree of whitewashing that still occurs is bizarre.
I won’t claim the most famous actors are the more talented, there’s a huge bias. But acting talent is a real thing and if nothing else you need a lot of practise to develop it. I don’t know if there’s enough opportunities for trans actors right now to have developed and honed that talent.
We need to see openly gay and lesbian actors given first shot at the roles they’re best suited for, gay or straight. Neil Patrick Harris isn’t famous for playing a gay person, he’s famous for being a good comic actor.
I’m not sure that’s possible.
“Superstar” actors are superstars because they appeal to a majority of people, and one of the big ways you do that is sex appeal.
Girls fantasize about straight male actors, and guys fantasize about being those straight male actors, the same thing happens for straight female actors, their sexual compatibility with the majority of the population is a big part of their appeal.
A gay actor can’t rely on that in the same way, I’m not saying it’s impossible to get a gay A-Lister, but I think it’s much harder than just giving the right actor roles and exposure.
