Science Babe takes down Food Babe

[quote=“Phrenological, post:10, topic:55063”]What do you want, bringing up some arrest record or proof of fraud? [/quote]That would definitely be new and fresh.

[quote]Her proudly-ignorant gimmick doesn’t change, the “teardowns” won’t either, nor will her flock really appreciate them anyway.[/quote]Exactly, it’s like they’re preaching to the choir.

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Science Babe used Azodicarbonamide as an example of how Food Babe is wrong.
Of course, Science Babe trusts the FDA’s GRAS classification. However, the World Health Organization warns “The level of risk is uncertain; hence, exposure levels should be reduced as much as possible.”
The substance is not authorized for use in food products in the EU and in Australia. The EU also bans its use in plastics which will come in contact with food.
Trusting the FDA may be a dodgy proposition these days. With all the evidence that our consumer protection agencies are corrupted by corporate interests, I have a hard time trusting them.

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I am not sure you’ve ever eaten genuinely gross bread if you think Subway’s bread is gross.

Can you point to any evidence showing any harm? Saying “The level of risk is uncertain” isn’t the same as saying “there is a risk here we know about”, the level of risk is uncertain about everything we know little about, doesn’t mean it’s dangerous. A lot of this is because it’s very hard to prove a negative, so this is frequently going to be the case, and there’s not much we can do about it.

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Sure thing
base info with minor studies
http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/40abcj28.htm
The EU reasoning
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:007:0045:0046:EN:PDF
http://www.who.int/ipcs/publications/cicad/en/cicad16.pdf

Ah, mea maxima culpa. It was @AcerPlatanoides.

have you posted the wrong link?

Azodicarbonamide has been extensively studied and the theoretical
point with regard to the possible effect of unconverted
azodicarbonamide was covered by experiments using overtreated flour or
bread made from it. The evidence strongly supports the view that
azodicarbonamide is rapidly and completely converted to biurea on
wetting and that this substance is stable in bread. Biurea itself is
metabolically inert, has low toxicity and does not present any
carcinogenic hazard. Azodicarbonamide has been adequately studied in
several species and is similarly free from carcinogenic hazard.
Long-term studies in mice are in progress (Frazer, 1966).

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Nope, I posted early … as in before I pasted all the links. Sorry about that. There are more if you are interested

My point is more that this woman can’t be trusted because she obviously know so little about science for it to be laughable. We shouldn’t even worry about the origins of her fearmongering based solely on her ramblings. If there are valid points there, I’m sure someone who has completed a high school science course is making those points without incorrect ‘facts’ and paranoid opinions.

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To each his own, I suppose.

Just wanted to point out that longer lifespans and better medical knowledge also contribute quite a bit to greater incidents of diagnosed cancer and cardiovascular disease. There’s a lot more than diet involved in those, and lumping them together with diabetes is extremely misleading.

She uses the classic techniques lots of nut job conspiracy theorist use. They pose questions with out acknowledging there are answers for them, and then make “common sense” statements which sound like they make sense, but anyone who knows an ounce about the matter knows it is full of baloney.

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I don’t get a penny for my bullshit and ignorance. They are free for all to enjoy.

However, I do resent it when people whose dominant or only motivation in life is to make money use me as a guinea pig or lab rat. Ignorant as I am, I still don’t like it. And I think it’s weird that I can’t go to a normal store to get food that isn’t laced with various substances that are native to a laboratory or a chemical factory rather than to farms and pastures. The other day I was reading about emulsifiers. Lots of prepared foods contain emulsifiers, because when something contains both water and oil, and you park it on a shelf for months, it’s going to separate unless the water and oil are emulsified. But it turns out that emulsifiers disturb your resident microorganisms and thus interfere with your digestion. The emulsifiers are harmless, only they’re not. But the people making money off the food aren’t going to care about harm unless you drop dead before you reach their cash register.

She may be motivated by health concerns but it’s neither her sole nor even primary motivation:

“I love competition. I love competition of ideas. There’s something really gratifying about convincing someone of something. […] it’s competition, and being the underdog, and convincing people that they need to think about healthier eating, drop the processed food, this food is killing you.” [The Atlantic]

It sounds like she enjoys being received as the champion of the people, whether or not her arguments or their premises are valid. Statements that are not only false but also written in ignorance of the truth and without concern for truth are not lies— lying would require knowing the truth —they are, by Frankfurt’s excellent definition of the word, bullshit.

I agree that Ms Hari is a symptom of a cultural illness, but I don’t think she deserves your cautiously optimistic assumption of her as a merely mis-guided but well-intentioned layperson. She is fully aware of her sphere of influence and yet almost invariably rejects the informed feedback of her detractors, whom she labels as insiders, shills, racists, or sexists, depending on which description she feels will resonate most with her readers.

Tactics like that cannot be adjusted in any productive sense of the word.

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Thank you for the reply.

Since you didn’t actually provide a citation, I got off my metaphorical butt and did a little research myself.

Here is one blog that supports what you said

And a linked article to an actual published, peer-reviewed article (i.e. a citation)

Note: I am aware that some random stranger on the internet, requesting (no matter how politely or respectfully) a citation, places no actual obligation on you to provide one.

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From Food emulsifiers linked to gut bacteria changes and obesity

Sanders said the research team’s conclusion that overeating in humans may be driven by food additives is ‘headline grabbing and unwarranted’, adding that "the fat, sugar and calories provided by ice-cream are far more likely to contribute to weight gain that trivial amounts of these additives.”

Indeed, the nutrition and diet expert added that the very high intake values used in the mouse study mean that it bears no impact for humans, as we only consume tiny amounts of any emulsifier ingredients in the foods we eat.

“This paper reports the effects in mice of very high intakes of two carbohydrate-based food additives (carboxymethyl cellulose E466 and polysorbate-80 E433)… Acceptable daily intakes (ADI) are expressed in mg/kg body weight and for E433 it is 10mg/kg body weight," noted Sanders. "A mouse weighs about 20g and drinks about 5 ml water a day, so an intake of 1% of these additives corresponds to an intake of 50mg/d or 2500 mg/kg."

"This is comparable to an intake 150,000 mg in a 60 kg adult which is 250 times greater than the ADI."

So yes, if you eat 150 grams a day of carboxymethyl cellulose E466 and polysorbate-80 E433, they’re bad for you.

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Broad strokes sound and feel good, but don’t hold up to scrutiny. In the culinary world the following are also emulsifiers:

  • eggs
  • xantham gum
  • flour (when used correctly)
  • gelatine
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Can I get a hot, frothy mug of that while you are at it? Perhaps with double salt? (I am getting silly again)

My grandmother wouldn’t recognize sushi, but she’d recognize just about anything that had been embedded in jello.

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Thanks, I was too busy to dig anything up myself at the time. Though that wasn’t the one I was thinking of.