I think unfair might be an understatement there. Not getting a raise because the boss doesn’t like you is unfair. What we’re speaking of is inhumane and anti-social. The human race is killing itself in a million little ways. If we can’t figure our shit out without killing each other or destroying our eco-system, we’re well and truly fucked, and what’s more, we’ll deserve it.
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They let us build 5 military bases on their soil; one on the Red Sea, one on the Persian Gulf and three in the center.
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Sure. Part of the reason that Bin Laden was pissed off.
They also cut off heads in soccer stadiums and regularly discriminate against non-sunni Muslims, not to mention people of other faiths (unless you’re an american, then you can live in fancy enclaves and do as you will).
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I can’t undo that association.
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[quote=“Mindysan33, post:41, topic:94280, full:true”] The human race is killing itself in a million little ways. If we can’t figure our shit out without killing each other or destroying our eco-system, we’re well and truly fucked, and what’s more, we’ll deserve it.
[/quote]
It’s not really a consoling thought, but we have been since the beginning of civilisation - both killing each other and changeing ecosystems.
What should be consoling is that, statistically, we’re less and less killing each other since a couple of decades. And we should work hard for keeping it that way. Especially in regards to undertakings like the EU, which is an undertaking for peace first and foremost. (And not, as it’s history might suggest, an economical project.) The same holds true for the U.N.
The thing is: all those undertakings need constant re-invention. They are no projects with fixed defined ends. But so far, what most people see and think of them is very much in the same line of thought and contempt Palpatine and his followers displays towards the bureaucrats…
Oh, did I just write Palpatine?
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I don’t know… I have less faith in the “decline in violence” narrative. Yes, it’s true, that especially small, local, person on person crimes are down, especially violent crimes. And the mechanisms that make that happen (as well as the large scale acts of violence) need constant vigilance and readjustments. But I also know that history isn’t progressive and that the arc of history must continually be bent in the right direction. The EU project seems on the brink, for real, I think. The UN has real structural problems of enforcing what we’ve come to count on as global norms. And much of the tensions and violence of the global north has been turned on the global south. When people say that the world is more peaceful, they generally mean the global north and the way that neo-liberal capitalism has depended on violence on the margins isn’t as important or a problem that we can solve.
I agree. We seem to be at a moment that could easily descend into chaos in places where we’ve come to expect peace and tranquillity. Remember that prior to the world wars and depression, there was a similar language of peace and tranquillity being deployed by Europeans, and it turned out to be not so true - or at least it dissolved quite easily. I’d like to think we have stronger structures to prevent that now, but I’m not sure we do…
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Maybe the ship was in Kentucky close to the site of the Bowling Green Massacre
Bowling Green massacre: Trump aide cites non-existent attack
Edit looks like this is already on the front page. I picked up from yesterday’s open tab
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Facts are so 2016
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They were? It seemed like a 2014 fad.
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[quote=“Mindysan33, post:47, topic:94280, full:true”]
The EU project seems on the brink, for real, I think. The UN has real structural problems of enforcing what we’ve come to count on as global norms. [\quote]
Regarding the ending of the EU as a project (see above), I refuse to buy into this narrative, as well. This has, of course, to do with my personal experience, but beyond that I think the memories of both the iron curtain and the war are not yet completely forgotten. While at the moment, a reinvention of nationalism is the hype, I sincerely hope that a re-invention or re-election discovery of the European spirit will emerge when, and because, the Brexit talks reach a certain development. I haven’t heard need need from Valetta, yet. And my hopes aren’t high. And I don’t think it will be a fast and popular thing. I am talking about a political spirit, not a popular (as in: masses on the street) one.
Regarding the UN, I am less optimistic. We would need a true “Wilsonian” spirit there, and I don’t know where to find it. Certainly not in the US, probably including the past eight years, I think.
[quote=“Mindysan33, post:47, topic:94280, full:true”]
When people say that the world is more peaceful, they generally mean the global north and the way that neo-liberal capitalism has depended on violence on the margins isn’t as important or a problem that we can solve.
[\quote]
I disagree on this point, I think. My view is heavily influenced by my experience in sub-Saharan Africa. I am not absolutely positive about this, but I think that the overall development - despite crass and terrible armed conflicts, terror and oppressive regimes, mind! - is still positive there.
I wouldn’t say it is “more peaceful”, however. I would rather say that it is, currently, easier to stay alive and even have moderate direct and indirect participation. “Less lethal” is not the same as “peaceful”, and “more social, economical and political participation” is not the same as “democratic and free”. But, FFS, its at least something we can build and work on, globally.
I don’t need to tell you that I am not trying to convince you that all is well, do I? 
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Right. I agree that they are the worst sort of “ally”. It’s been a problem for decades. But money and corruption go hand in hand and that relationship has both in bulk.
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I would think that “accidentally declaring war” would be high on the list of things that would get a press secretary fired.
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If they were not good and decent people, would you not respect their basic human rights?
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Do you mean me, personally, or everyone?
You personally.
You realize a lot of folks here consider you some kind of nazi apologist, right, Mr. Most White?
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That is a misconception on their part. I do like the 'Most White" remark. I have never heard that one before.
And I do not think anyone has legitimate cause to accuse me of infringing on the human rights of Yemenis. Where did that one come from?
No one has accused you of infringing on Yemeni rights.
Dismissal of minority concerns (“Black Lives Matter”), regularly excusing the behavior of right wing folks and Nazis, side tracking conversations on the same, excusing actions against minorities? Yes.
If you aren’t a white supremacist, you may wish to consider why a sizable group of people here think you are one (including me at this point). The jig is up.
I’m not going to give you a blow by blow breakdown. If others want to, they will do as they wish. Good day, sir.
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The article here claims that no one in the press corps corrected him, but that guy up front pretty clearly told him it was a Saudi vessel. He didn’t specify that Iran wasn’t involved.
The biggest problem with the kind of half-assed unprepared bullshit claims we’re getting from this White House is that batting them down in real time requires someone to have full awareness of the whole situation and utter certainty that the claim is wrong at a moment’s notice. These guys can lie to you three times before you can fact-check once. It’s overwhelming.
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The press release on 2/1/17 included the following-
“Recent Iranian actions, including a provocative ballistic missile launch and an attack against a Saudi naval vessel conducted by Iran-supported Houthi militants, underscore what should have been clear to the international community all along about Iran’s destabilizing behavior across the Middle East."
That statement was also read by General Flynn during the press briefing on 2/1/17. The “our Navy vessel” statement was made during the Q&A session at the end of the 2/2/17 press conference.
That being said, the only way that Trump can halfway succeed in office is if those around him are much more careful about their words than Trump himself is able to be. This would especially apply to Mr. Spicer. Casually confusing Iran with Iranian sponsored groups is a mistake that could lead to serious consequences.
