I don’t know, there is assuredly some truly awful conversion therapy. However, these articles (especially the Wired one) hardly seem like a war.
It’s a war of ideology, and children are the casualties.
it’s “liberal dogma” to demand evidence for her published claims.
The best line in the article. This of how much faster science would have progressed without all that evidence business - why, you could prove absolutely everything!
The amount of anger I have about just the passive denial of my gender identity growing up-- I can’t even imagine what it would have been like to be actively converted.
I was a textbook example.
Watching my daughter refuse to wear pants or shorts (because they are for “boys”) breaks my heart because I can only imagine how hard it would be for another kid wanting the same thing and being denied over and over. At least I was “allowed” to wear mostly gender neutral clothing.
46% of trans people have attempted suicide… 46% of trans people who have survived and have been able to figure out that they’re trans…
We don’t know how many trans people there are and how many casualties aong trans people there have been.
I guess I’ll have to get a t shirt made saying “I’m a bad outcome”.
According to Prof Bailey:
Dr Marissa Levine - Health Commissioner of Virginia
Dr Rachel Levine - Pennsylvania Physician General
Lana Wachowski - Noted Film Director
Prof. Lynn Conway - National Academy of Science - Honoree Computer History Musuem
Christ, what an asshole!
A bit of the world without coercion - all bad outcomes?..
It’s society that has the so-called “gender identity issue” and it’s the transgendered community that is having to compensate for what is really society’s “gender simplification issue”.
It’s kinda important to note that conversion therapy for trans kids was based on conversion therapy for gay adults. And that was based in no small part on Masters and Johnsons 1979 follow up book to the Joys of Sex, “Homosexuality in Perspective” in which they claimed a 70% “conversion” success rate. Problem is, the entire book was fabricated. There was no study, there were no attempted conversions, there were no subjects, period.
Also a note to Ms. James: As the parent of a trans child, thank you for the wonderful news that K.Zucker is essentially out of business as he knows it. He has spent much of the last eight or so years trying to engage parents’ groups to use our kids as research subjects. It almost sounded as if he realized his career was fast becoming outdated by findings in neurology, endocrinology, genetics and developmental biology and perhaps, if he could just join us he could become relevant again. I’m proud to say that our leaders and every single parent not only turned him down repeatedly but spread the word far and wide of the danger he presents to our kids.
Seriously, fuck Zucker. He’s as bad as Burzynski, except he’s doing his damndest to erase a living person’s whole identity, which he knows often drives them to suicide, rather than just straight up kill them, like Burzynski.
Both psychopathic torturers who profit off of the suffering and death of the desperate. Fucking grief vampires.
You think they’re worried we may devise a trans conversion program, where we turn cis folk into trans… You know once we take power… Gimme a freaking break! The fact that this shit has to be voted against or stopped at all is so, so sad.
Aside from the obvious ethical problems, isn’t ‘sexology’ as a field so immature that having its practitioners moving from basic research to theraputic application should be viewed with some skepticism regardless of exactly what effects they are trying to achieve?
It seems rather like a linguist going ‘well, we’ve basically learned everything there is to know about how natural language works, so I’m going to go be a prescriptive grammarian now.’
Even if they were working on some urgently helpful project(say, reducing recidivism among sexual abusers of children); ‘sexology’ seems like an enterprise that makes psychology look like a mature discipline; one with a limited track record of even gathering decent data about the world, much less achieving effects more sophisticated than those achieved by social pressure from laymen.
Well… Sexology is a very synthetic field of study, in that it’s pretty much entirely derivative of other sciences. It’s applied anatomy, neurochemistry, and psychology, and to lesser extents various humanities including sociology and economics. I’ve never stumbled across a sexology paper that wouldn’t fit comfortably into journals exclusively for neurology, or psychology, or anatomy at least… So while they may be studying sex, it’s not like sex is something separate from the rest of the human mind and body. And the older, more established fields have done a better job when it comes to rigor when they study sex.
I guess the thing that “Dr. Ruth” type sexology has going for it is that it tends to be more inclusive and tolerant of alternative sexualities (whereas most psychological studies are on the order of “all test subjects were straight affluent males who happen to go to the same college where the research is taking place”).
But these guys in the article are total ass hats, and really are one of the rare cases I’d call something close to evil. Screw it. I’ll bite the bullet: Fucking up and emotionally and psychologically abusing children for expressing who they are in ways that don’t hurt anyone is evil, and that definitely includes conversion “therapy”.
Slightly off topic (sorry)
I was briefly one of Richard Green’s patients at Charing Cross Gender Identity Clinic (GIC) and I remember the list of does and don’ts from other transwomen. Basically it was:
- Do appear as feminine as possible (Never wear trousers! In 2002?!)
- Don’t say that you are anything other than exclusively attracted to men
- Don’t say you are a feminist
- Don’t say you have any stereotypically male interests
Yes, people got refused treatment if they didn’t fit these criteria. I admit to lying to him about certain details whilst generally telling the truth.
I only found out about The ‘Sissy Boy Syndrome’ after the appointment and I was completely unsurprised by it.
Scarily, Richard Green was far from the worst psychiatrist in the UK for trans people. I narrowly avoided going to see the psychiatrist at Newcastle-upon-Tyne GIC, who had got the nickname Dr Death because of the high number of suicides (even by trans* standards) among his patients.
I have been told that Charing Cross GIC is far better now and that list doesn’t apply anymore.
An actual expert…
Behind a Murdoch paywall.
Thank you Andrea for your continued vigilance in uncovering these academic and professional “experts” and all of the misinformation they continue to spread. It’s hard to keep up with their orchestrations and apparent personal vendettas. I gave up a while ago, it’s like having Fox News on in the background. I know it’s there and it’s annoying (and sometimes comical, and every once in a while some sanity leaks out), but I have other things in life that need my attention more.
Anyways, I wanted to say that I appreciate your journalism and I’m grateful for your willingness to stand up for human rights. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.
Alice Dreger’s side of things: The Blog I Write In Fear
How many legs has a dog, if you call the tail a leg? 4. Calling the tail a leg does not make it so.
What science supports the idea that some people in the wrong bodies? Are their chromosomes not XX or XY? That percentage has to be vanishingly small. Are they just convinced that they are what they are not? Lady tells a doctor, “My husband thinks he’s a refrigerator…” That is called a mental illness, i.e., insanity and used to be treated by psychiatrists and or psychologists, now, sadly, the liberals have embraced the idea that people really are “trapped” or “In the wrong body”.