Snowden: US lets NSA liars go; stops at nothing to bust those who tell the truth

boing
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Its a sort of Hipster sockpuppet trolling, Not intereseted, but comments anyway on how uninterested he/she is.
Opinion offered as consensus, now we HAVE to debate whether we should care or not.
Trolling level: meh.

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Possibly relevant -

Greenwald leaving Guardian http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/exclusive-glenn-greenwald-will-leave-guardian-to-create-new

And he says the worst is yet to come http://world.time.com/2013/10/14/greenwald-on-snowden-leaks-the-worst-is-yet-to-come/?hpt=hp_bn18

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What I am asking is, “Why does he have to antagonize one ruthless and powerful intelligence agency while under the protection of a different ruthless and powerful intelligence agency/police state?” Also, maybe we should ask one Manning how a person of her sexual orientation would like to go to Russia with its legal position on “traditional values.”

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It really is a shame that he didn’t take a flight directly from Hong Kong to South America…or just not go to Hong Kong in the first place. That was just dumb and it blunts the effect of his message.

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Presumably because he wants to be out of reach of the first one? Part of the information he was leaking was the revelation of more or less complete complicity on the part of most reasonably US-friendly states (so trying to hide out in one of them would be a sucker’s bet) and US willingness to ignore ‘sovereignty’ when it really feels like doing a bit of rendition really takes the uncooperative-but-weak countries off the table.

It’s not as though Russia was chosen for being a freedomtastic bastion of freedom; but for being a relatively good place to avoid the feds.

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Covering his ass is his own prerogative, but I find hypocrisy distasteful. If he wants to moralize, he can’t have it both ways.

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Where’s the hypocrisy? Has he said anything positive (aside, if memory serves, from expressing his appreciation of the asylum working out) about Russia’s government, state of civil society, treatment of Kremlin critics, FSB spying programs, etc?

Obviously, his being there is a tacit endorsement of “Russia, a fairly decent option if the American clandestine services want your head!”; but an endorsement founded pretty much entirely on the fact that Russia finds watching the NSA squirm to be amusing, not on any principled treatment of whistleblowers.

Are you reading something more into this, or subscribing to the ‘if you don’t get a beatdown you clearly aren’t doing civil disobedience correctly’ school of protest?

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Seems to me the answer is, like a lot of other things in life:
Because he had no choice.
Are you saying that you would stay in prision and endure torture rather than flee to an oppressive country that would have you? Because you are clearly not saying manning had a choice are you?

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No it doesn’t. or should I ask, has it?
Nope.

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Starting?

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Reactionary nostalgia is excellent at masking the odors and tastes of spoilage. It’s why people remember the 50s as a halcyon age, and why Jesse Helms was never identified as one of the undead during his period in office.

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He doesn’t have to say good things about Russia to be hypocritical.
It’s like a guy complaining that Mcdonald’s doesn’t pay a living wage…while eating at Burger King.

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I am saying that if you have to defect to Russia, don’t complain about things America and Russia both do. He has done his part for the world, so he should enjoy his asylum in quiet.

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I understand what you said, it was clear from the beginning, what I am saying is it doesn’t make sense. Well it does, but you would have to suppose that anybody here had a choice. You would also have to suppose that he chose Russia as his destination for asylum, but if you follow the timeline, you’ll see he got stuck in Russia while in transit someplace else, you would also see that he petitioned other governments for asylum.

So reading anything into where he is, and furthermore, using it to dismiss or diminish his claims only drives you away from the evidence which, alone, should prove his claims. Wait, not just the evidence, but the response from the accused is pretty telling too.

You cant be also saying that his accusations are more serious if made from (insert country) rather than from Russia right?
Wait, you are saying that. Well, that’s just silly.

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Whether he chose Russia or not, they are now bedfellows. Your argument hinges on it being a matter of where he wanted to go, rather than where he is.

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Actually, your argument hinged on that. It doesn’t anymore though, does it?

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Perhaps you’re right. I’m not so sure that Snowden didn’t want to be in Russia. He had many other options when he was still in Hong Kong. And why did he choose to go to Hong Kong in the first place?

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He needed a place that

  1. Was a single flight from Hawaii
  2. Wasn’t the US
  3. Wasn’t a US ally that would hand him over to the US
  4. Wasn’t a country that the US would have no problem sending a strike team into
  5. Wouldn’t be flagged as suspicious
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Which would also preferably be a transport hub, with flights routinely going all over the world. And hey, great food :smiley: Hong Kong had a lot going for it.

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