Geez I expect better memetic knowledge of people around here. Actual Godwin-ing requires comparison, illustrating is totally allowed when apt. I used the term Godwin facetiously, despite my treating the subject matter of the illustration with due respect.
If you want to use your lack of memetic knowledge to back away, be my guest. But try to find the appropriate complaint to lodge, because that isn’t cherry-picking. I think you’re aware of that now, despite you’re clearly still believing that not including recent Tomb Raiders means that Sarkeesian is…? Like Fox News? I’m sure that’s a comparison, and there should be a meme for it.
An ad hominem is a logical fallacy where a position is rejected by a complaint against the person making it. I said “your ideas are inconsistent, sociopathic, and wilfully blind,” and also explained why your ideas were inconsistent and sociopathic (wilfully blind is not something an idea can be only people holding an idea, though this isn’t an ad hom.). I didn’t attribute any of your personal failings as the reason for why your ideas are flawed.
I mentioned faith-based economics, and you’re clearly in the fold. I’ve had my say, this isn’t going to be a fruitful discussion, and I don’t want to torture others with waking up this thread over and over with a slagfest with you, so I’m done with this one.
The feedback loops go both ways. Developers will make what they suppose people might want to play. While consumers can only really choose from what has already been made for them. Saying that people should not bother the developer about it is wrong for two reasons. 1. Since there are feedback loops going both ways, the developers do not exist in a vacuum, and 2. developers, manufacturers, marketers, etc nearly all say that they are interested to know what people think of their products and services!
They pay for research, customer relations personnel, and say that they value knowing why customers chose their product instead of another. Or why they didn’t. Because me “voting with my money” doesn’t actually tell anybody what I did or didn’t like about it. Maybe it was the worst $50 I ever spent, and I’d never buy another thing from them. Maybe I wanted to choose their game but another edged it out for a particular reason.
The amazing thing is that it is only some other consumers who get in a twist about criticism, because some of them feel insecure about it. The artists, developers, marketers, and many others think its a worthy discussion. It seems to only be a small but vocal group of reactionaries who say that it is a problem for some reason which they can’t explain.
I think I have an opportunity to teach you something here. If you want a conversation to end YOU have to stop participating in it. If you want games to be different YOU need to buy different games.
I agree but I think you have an inaccurate idea about the number of people who really care about the depiction of women in video games, and I mean care enough to not buy a game they would otherwise want. Up there a ways I said that showing ass in games is a very low-risk/high-return decision. Most of their market likes that portrayal of butts and those who don’t will probably buy the game anyway.
They probably look at the number of people that will be alienated and compare it to how much an ass on the cover will boost sales and make a decision from there.
You’re right, it takes two to tango. The reason I hate people just blaming the developers is because it feels like scapegoating. It avoids placing responsibility where it’s due. It’s easier for her to point at faceless developers and blame them for their depictions of women, it’s a lot harder for her to point at her viewers and say “YOU are the reason games are like this. YOU are wrong for wanting to buy games like these.”
I work in network security. For years, many blamed end-users for “not doing it right”, when the inevitable breach happened. These day’s a lot of people in the industry are taking a hard look at that mentality and the products we produce and saying, “it’s our product and if it didn’t have the intended results, maybe we need to re think.”
Food for thought bro.
As far as blaming consumers, try going to a car dealership and yelling at people for buying SUVs now that gas prices are down and see where that gets you.
I understand, it’s completely a slippery slope. One minute, we’re talking about video channels that seem to be more interested in selectively promoting an agenda by picking examples than actual progress, the next minute
Returning to the game as a whole, I must point out that there are indeed a number of ways in which Lara is portrayed differently than a man would be. You’d be hard-pressed to find a male action hero shown panting with fear, shaking with cold, holding his best friend’s hand reassuringly, or any of the many other emotive things we see Lara do. That’s not a mark against Tomb Raider. That’s a mark against how other heroes are written. What I found here was a character far more believable than all of the gravely-voiced, iron-jawed, emotionless dudes out there. Lara felt flawed and mortal, and for that, I admired her perseverance all the more. After the countless times I’ve wished to see a leading lady given the same chance as the gents, now the shoe’s on the other foot. I’d love to see a fixed-gender male protagonist portrayed with as much honesty and depth as Lara Croft.
… which is exactly the point made here
and here
Hey, turns out, the very franchise ridiculed in the video is actually a textbook example of showing how we make games better.
Of course, talk is cheap. I thought I’d put my money where my mouth is, and as I loved the hell out of Tomb Raider (2013), I went ahead and pre-ordered Rise of the Tomb Raider, which I was gonna do anyway.
But wait, there’s more! I also pre-ordered two extra Steam giftable copies of Rise of the Tomb Raider
One copy of Rise of the Tomb Raider is for @funkdaddy
Another copy of Rise of the Tomb Raider for any other person in this topic who posted at least 2 times upstream of this reply, and has a BBS account created more than 1 month ago. PM me to claim, as long as you have a Steam account name, and the above criteria are met, it’s all yours! claimed
Ditto for the free copy of Tomb Raider (2013) I got for buying the new game, if you meet the criteria outlined in #2 then PM me and it’s yours. claimed
despite the fact that Lara decimates every enemy she encounters, one can’t help but notice a fundamental difference between her and her targets. While the guards she kills pack Halo-esque future-armor with bullet proof vests, helmets, and flame throwers, Lara Croft traipses about with spaghetti straps, a bow, and a high pony tail (side note: what the hell kind of hair spray does Lara Croft use to keep that thing so goddamn perfect? I mean, come on, not a single flyaway after all that crawling, stabbing, and rolling around in the dirt? I call bullshit). It’s not that Lara looks unprotected while facing off against such hulking, well-prepared enemies. She looks plainly foolhardy, relying on the protection of what might as well be a 100% cotton tee to ward off stray bullets or any out-of-control flame.
“LARA CROFT STILL DOESN’T KNOW HOW TO PUT A DAMN TOP ON”
For one thing, I don’t play movie-games. For another, it isn’t cherry-picking, doesn’t meet the definition and text blocks don’t change that.
Your personal criticism, that it should have been included in the 6 minute video about something you say it is not, is that alone, your personal criticism.
And as I said earlier, the game studios invite her to speak, so they appear to be interested in what she has to say about it. In fact, my husband is not a particular fan of her videos; he says the format doesn’t do a good job of getting her point across. But hearing her speak live, he said there wasn’t a single thing he disagreed with.
picking examples than actual progress, the next minute
